The real problems are with the back end of the software. When you try to get a quote for health insurance, the system has to connect to computers at [a lot of different places] All of these queries receive data that is then fed into the online calculator to give you a price. If any of these queries fails, the whole transaction fails....
...none of this was tested until a week or two before the rollout, and the tests failed. They released the web site to the public anyway....Their load tests crashed the system with only 200 simultaneous transactions – a load that even the worst-written front-end software could easily handle.
When you even contemplate bringing an old legacy system into a large-scale web project, you should do load testing on that system as part of the feasibility process before you ever write a line of production code....
The root problem was horrific management. The end result is a system built incorrectly and shipped without doing the kind of testing that sound engineering practices call for. These aren’t ‘mistakes’, they are the result of gross negligence, ignorance, and the violation of engineering best practices at just about every step of the way....
...the failure of Obamacare’s web portal can be more reasonably blamed on the government’s unwillingness to outsource the key piece of the project – the integration lead....for some inexplicable reason the administration decided to make the Center for Medicare and Medicaid services the integration lead for a massive IT project despite the fact that CMS has no experience managing large IT projects.
Failure isn’t rare for government IT projects – it’s the norm. Over 90% of them fail to deliver on time and on budget. But more frighteningly, over 40% of them fail absolutely and are never delivered.
500 Million Lines of Code
Moderator: Dux
Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
I don't know how much of it is true, but this is interesting:
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
"Glitch"..."Total system failure"
You say tomato, I say tomahtoe.
You say tomato, I say tomahtoe.
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
I had no idea it takes almost 40 million lines of code to run a sybianWildGorillaMan wrote:http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/v ... ign=Buffer
And the ginormous infographic:
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
That's 40 million LOC with the backend option._AP_ wrote:I had no idea it takes almost 40 million lines of code to run a sybianWildGorillaMan wrote:http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/v ... ign=Buffer
And the ginormous infographic:
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
No bid contracts have such a great history too...Pinky wrote:I don't know how much of it is true, but this is interesting:The real problems are with the back end of the software. When you try to get a quote for health insurance, the system has to connect to computers at [a lot of different places] All of these queries receive data that is then fed into the online calculator to give you a price. If any of these queries fails, the whole transaction fails....
...none of this was tested until a week or two before the rollout, and the tests failed. They released the web site to the public anyway....Their load tests crashed the system with only 200 simultaneous transactions – a load that even the worst-written front-end software could easily handle.
When you even contemplate bringing an old legacy system into a large-scale web project, you should do load testing on that system as part of the feasibility process before you ever write a line of production code....
The root problem was horrific management. The end result is a system built incorrectly and shipped without doing the kind of testing that sound engineering practices call for. These aren’t ‘mistakes’, they are the result of gross negligence, ignorance, and the violation of engineering best practices at just about every step of the way....
...the failure of Obamacare’s web portal can be more reasonably blamed on the government’s unwillingness to outsource the key piece of the project – the integration lead....for some inexplicable reason the administration decided to make the Center for Medicare and Medicaid services the integration lead for a massive IT project despite the fact that CMS has no experience managing large IT projects.
Failure isn’t rare for government IT projects – it’s the norm. Over 90% of them fail to deliver on time and on budget. But more frighteningly, over 40% of them fail absolutely and are never delivered.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code

Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
All the supposed uninsured clamouring for health care and how many do they get signed on in the first day?
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The thing that will save us is how fucking stupid Libs are with all their supposed education.
Mnay Conservatives worry this will drive us to socialised health care.
Bulllshit, it was hard enough for the cunts to get this shit passed and Congressional composition is less favourable to their shit and will be even more anti Lib next year.
We will go back mostly to what we had before the Muslim loving Fuck took office, with probably the part about not excluding or dropping people for pre-existing conditions, the negatives financially of that we can handle for the good it does society but it will be back to get your shit from work, get it yourself and Medicaid if your shit out of luck.
Now all we need is one White House staffer to pull a John Dean and the Medina Canidate is going to be out on his ass and maybe in jail?
He'll be dead in 10 years tops.
6
The thing that will save us is how fucking stupid Libs are with all their supposed education.
Mnay Conservatives worry this will drive us to socialised health care.
Bulllshit, it was hard enough for the cunts to get this shit passed and Congressional composition is less favourable to their shit and will be even more anti Lib next year.
We will go back mostly to what we had before the Muslim loving Fuck took office, with probably the part about not excluding or dropping people for pre-existing conditions, the negatives financially of that we can handle for the good it does society but it will be back to get your shit from work, get it yourself and Medicaid if your shit out of luck.
Now all we need is one White House staffer to pull a John Dean and the Medina Canidate is going to be out on his ass and maybe in jail?
He'll be dead in 10 years tops.
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
HHS has enough trouble with blatant fraud (and $84m in reimbursements over three years screams blatant fraud)-- a website with large security holes should present no problem.The Benitez brothers were masters of Medicare fraud, prosecutors say.
They spent their Medicare millions on Mediterranean-style homes, apartments, hotels, boats, a helicopter, even a water park -- all in the resort area of Bavaro, Dominican Republic, court records show.
After they were indicted on fraud charges in late May, Carlos, Jose and Luis Benitez used their Cuban passports to travel from Miami to the Dominican Republic, then to Cuba.
The three brothers are accused of defrauding the U.S. government's health insurance program by billing $110 million in false claims for HIV drug-infusion treatments at their dozen Miami-Dade clinics. Medicare paid their companies about $84 million in reimbursements between 2001 and 2004, according to federal authorities and court records.
The Benitezes -- who came to this country in 1995 and became U.S. citizens five years later -- have a lot of company. They are among 56 fugitives charged since 2004 with filing at least $272 million in phony Medicare claims before disappearing from Miami-Dade. Collectively, the fugitives absconded with at least $142 million in taxpayer funds.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2008/08/05/v ... rylink=cpy
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
More details on how the Obama Administration clownishly mishandled the implementation of their biggest legislative achievement.
This is the letter from David Cutler mentioned in the article. In May, 2010, he was warning the White House that the reform would likely fail if things didn't change. From the article above, it sounds like Summers and other economic advisers agreed, but they weren't listened to. None of the problems Cutler expresses concerns about, including those with the agency that was responsible for building the exchanges, were addressed.
This is the letter from David Cutler mentioned in the article. In May, 2010, he was warning the White House that the reform would likely fail if things didn't change. From the article above, it sounds like Summers and other economic advisers agreed, but they weren't listened to. None of the problems Cutler expresses concerns about, including those with the agency that was responsible for building the exchanges, were addressed.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
Uggh...to have the exchange fail like this is an extraordinary ho-ley shit disaster. The mothership of fuckups.
From the beginning, one of my biggest gripes against the thing was lack of parsimony. Too damned complicated, no one had read it, no one understood it in its full extent, way too many unintended consequences heading our way.
I figured the mandate would be judged unconstitutional and that would disrupt it, but was wrong. So I figured, "What the hell" and waited to see what was in it. I'm thinking there is some good intentions in there, but it remained extraordinarily complicated, and no matter what it was the law.
From the beginning, one of my biggest gripes against the thing was lack of parsimony. Too damned complicated, no one had read it, no one understood it in its full extent, way too many unintended consequences heading our way.
I figured the mandate would be judged unconstitutional and that would disrupt it, but was wrong. So I figured, "What the hell" and waited to see what was in it. I'm thinking there is some good intentions in there, but it remained extraordinarily complicated, and no matter what it was the law.
Don’t believe everything you think.
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
Thanks for posting that Cutler letter, very interesting stuff.Pinky wrote:More details on how the Obama Administration clownishly mishandled the implementation of their biggest legislative achievement.
This is the letter from David Cutler mentioned in the article. In May, 2010, he was warning the White House that the reform would likely fail if things didn't change. From the article above, it sounds like Summers and other economic advisers agreed, but they weren't listened to. None of the problems Cutler expresses concerns about, including those with the agency that was responsible for building the exchanges, were addressed.
Re the Post article:
The thing the Post leaves out is the role of Senate Democrats, who, arguably, have hindered the ACA's success far more than Republicans.Based on interviews with more than two dozen current and former administration officials and outsiders who worked alongside them, the project was hampered by the White House’s political sensitivity to Republican hatred of the law — sensitivity so intense that the president’s aides ordered that some work be slowed down or remain secret for fear of feeding the opposition. Inside the Department of Health and Human Services’ Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, the main agency responsible for the exchanges, there was no single administrator whose full-time job was to manage the project. Republicans also made clear they would block funding, while some outside IT companies that were hired to build the Web site, HealthCare.gov, performed poorly.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
It's almost like the U.S. government is being run by a junior Senator with no executive experience.Pinky wrote:More details on how the Obama Administration clownishly mishandled the implementation of their biggest legislative achievement.
This is the letter from David Cutler mentioned in the article. In May, 2010, he was warning the White House that the reform would likely fail if things didn't change. From the article above, it sounds like Summers and other economic advisers agreed, but they weren't listened to. None of the problems Cutler expresses concerns about, including those with the agency that was responsible for building the exchanges, were addressed.
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"


Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
The reality of the American system is, big sweeping changes are SUPPOSED to be very hard. It is hard to change the Constitution. It is hard to get bills through both houses (well, it used to be before the parties agreed on 99% of things). The process can be thwarted at multiple points along the way, by opposing members of Congress, by the Senate or the House, by the Executive branch, by the courts, etc. Our constitutional system is purposefully designed that way. Ramming a transformational bill through Congress on a strictly partyline vote "because you can" is unwise. No surprise implementation has been difficult.nafod wrote:I'm thinking there is some good intentions in there, but it remained extraordinarily complicated, and no matter what it was the law.
The progressives dream up big, transformational systems to run our lives, designed and built by the smartest of the smart who know what's best for us. Then those plans run headfirst into the messy business of constitutional democracy with nasty realities like "voting" and "committees."
"If only everyone would listen to us! We know what's best for you!"
It's like a highpowered offense complaining they would've succeeded if only the other team's defense had let up a little.
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"


Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
I never understood the desire to reform the entire healthcare system at once, especially when it meant that resulting bill would involved measures that were widely seen as steps backward (like the employer mandate).
If the administration had pursued a less ambitious and more bipartisan approach like offering to kill the employer tax credit (supported by many Republicans) in exchange for a Medicaid expansion, it could have improved both coverage and efficiency more quickly and with less strife.
A less ambitious approach might have also resulted in better healthcare exchanges. One problem with the exchanges, mentioned in another thread, is that they're constrained by idiotic minimum standards and heavy community rating. The result will be a market where consumers have less incentive to care about costs than they should. We'll get "competition" between a few large companies that are all offering (nearly) the same government-approved plan at the same previously agreed upon price. (That's usually considered collusion when the government isn't involved.) The individual mandate might reduce adverse selection problems, but problems of moral hazard will be much worse. This is bad news for costs, and possibly even the overall health of the American public.
If the administration had pursued a less ambitious and more bipartisan approach like offering to kill the employer tax credit (supported by many Republicans) in exchange for a Medicaid expansion, it could have improved both coverage and efficiency more quickly and with less strife.
A less ambitious approach might have also resulted in better healthcare exchanges. One problem with the exchanges, mentioned in another thread, is that they're constrained by idiotic minimum standards and heavy community rating. The result will be a market where consumers have less incentive to care about costs than they should. We'll get "competition" between a few large companies that are all offering (nearly) the same government-approved plan at the same previously agreed upon price. (That's usually considered collusion when the government isn't involved.) The individual mandate might reduce adverse selection problems, but problems of moral hazard will be much worse. This is bad news for costs, and possibly even the overall health of the American public.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
And we were doing so well too...


"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
What sucks is that this website fiasco is going to take attention away from the important stuff, like the fact that the ACA itself is horrible and is going to fuck many thousands of people over.

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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
http://gizmodo.com/these-guys-just-buil ... 1458215436
Private sector to the rescue.
Now O can claim it was a private/public initiative all long.
Private sector to the rescue.
Now O can claim it was a private/public initiative all long.
Blaidd Drwg wrote:Disengage from the outcome and do work.
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
"If you like your doctor, you can keep you doctor. PERIOD!"
Another Obama and Democrat Lie.
But hey, those were shity doctors anyway. Sign up on the Obamacare Website and select your Government approved........? Oh yeah, well check back in a couple if months when we have this sorted out. Don't worry "we have top men in this!"
In the meantime call our 1-800 number. Your just released from prison, Obamacare operator/community activist will be more than happy to take your credit/personal info and will quickly refer you to the the Obamacare website to complete your order! How is that for blazing fast Government Service? Oh Yeahhhhh.....that just puts you back where you started.
Did we mention this was The republican party's fault?
Another Obama and Democrat Lie.
But hey, those were shity doctors anyway. Sign up on the Obamacare Website and select your Government approved........? Oh yeah, well check back in a couple if months when we have this sorted out. Don't worry "we have top men in this!"
In the meantime call our 1-800 number. Your just released from prison, Obamacare operator/community activist will be more than happy to take your credit/personal info and will quickly refer you to the the Obamacare website to complete your order! How is that for blazing fast Government Service? Oh Yeahhhhh.....that just puts you back where you started.
Did we mention this was The republican party's fault?
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
Another interesting rabbit hole.
David Cutler on Lambrew (from the letter Pinky posted):
http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/14/most- ... s-scandal/Jeanne Lambrew, deputy assistant to the president for health policy, entered Obama-world in 2008 as a health-policy adviser to then-Senator Obama’s presidential campaign. She was subsequently named deputy director and then director of the Department of Health and Human Services’ (HHS) now-defunct Office of Health Reform, where she reported directly to Kathleen Sebelius.
Lambrew’s current “deputy assistant to the president” position, while modest-sounding, gives her extensive and centralized power over the White House’s efforts to implement Obamacare.
“The few remaining centrists thinkers inside the White House, mostly scattered across the National Economic Council and Treasury, are gone – or largely marginalized when it comes to issues around implementation. The people drafting and reviewing the regulations are mostly centered in the White House and its Domestic Policy Council — and they mostly work for Jeanne Lambrew,” Gottlieb wrote.
“Normally, the Office of Management and Budget and the National Economic Council would be heavily engaged on the issuance of regulations tied to a major law like Obamacare. Not the Obama White House. The economists still play on the fiscal issues related to Medicare and Medicaid. But when it comes to Obamacare implementation, they are not calling the shots. The power is centered on Lambrew,” Gottlieb wrote.
Lambrew exchanged confidential taxpayer information on organizations with IRS official Sarah Hall Ingram and White House health policy advisor Ellen Montz, according to 2012 emails obtained by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee and provided to The Daily Caller last week.
David Cutler on Lambrew (from the letter Pinky posted):
Above the operational level, the process is also broken. The overall head of implementation inside HHS, Jeanne Lambrew, is known for her knowledge of Congress, her commitment to the poor, and her mistrust of insurance companies. She is not known for operational ability, knowledge of delivery systems, or facilitating widespread change. Thus, it is not surprising that delivery system reform, provider outreach, and exchange administration are receiving little attention.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code

LOL at "The Earl of Taint" online name!
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
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I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code


Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code
Keep Calm....


Last edited by Batboy2/75 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code

Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

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Re: 500 Million Lines of Code

Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.
