IGX

I'm still trying to understand "west virginian passtime".

baffled wrote:I'm still trying to understand "west virginian passtime".

Not quite to the level of 'Clear your eyes from Liquid shit!,' but close.

DrDonkeyLove wrote:It's nice to be reminded what utter soulless assholes white people can be.

I assure you, all would immediately forget about this airliner after revealed that it was...
shot down by ukrainian army.
or it dropped itself.
or it was bomber on the board...
or something else...

All immediately forget about this.
But Russia will be sanctioned in any case :) so nobody bothering over it too much.
Yes people died. But there wasnt any investigation. Just "it was Russians! We have evidence but can't show it to you!"

Wild Bill wrote: I assure you, all would immediately forget about this airliner after revealed that it was... shot down by ukrainian army. or it dropped itself. or it was bomber on the board... or something else... All immediately forget about this. But Russia will be sanctioned in any case :) so nobody bothering over it too much. Yes people died. But there wasnt any investigation. Just "it was Russians! We have evidence but can't show it to you!"

I wasn't addressing the missile attack which was probably just wicked incompetence by one party or another.

The fact that the local "authorities" deny international inspectors and cleanup experts sufficient access to the site while innocent people's remains rot in the countryside for days is indeed soulless. I'd expect this in parts of Africa but not in Europe.

Wild Bill wrote: I assure you, all would immediately forget about this airliner after revealed that it was...
shot down by ukrainian army.
or it dropped itself.
or it was bomber on the board...
or something else...

All immediately forget about this.
But Russia will be sanctioned in any case :) so nobody bothering over it too much.
Yes people died. But there wasnt any investigation. Just "it was Russians! We have evidence but can't show it to you!"

Russia asks to wait for the results of the investigation that Russia is obstructing and tampering with. The actions of a guilty party.

DrDonkeyLove wrote:

Wild Bill wrote: I assure you, all would immediately forget about this airliner after revealed that it was... shot down by ukrainian army. or it dropped itself. or it was bomber on the board... or something else... All immediately forget about this. But Russia will be sanctioned in any case :) so nobody bothering over it too much. Yes people died. But there wasnt any investigation. Just "it was Russians! We have evidence but can't show it to you!"

I wasn't addressing the missile attack which was probably just wicked incompetence by one party or another.

The fact that the local "authorities" deny international inspectors and cleanup experts sufficient access to the site while innocent people's remains rot in the countryside for days is indeed soulless. I'd expect this in parts of Africa but not in Europe.

Uncle Ivan is the one who keeps Europe warm during the winter, and we don't want to be Europe's alternate supplier.

nafod wrote:Russia asks to wait for the results of the investigation that Russia is obstructing and tampering with. The actions of a guilty party.

Of course it is much easier without investigation :)))))

"The actions of a guilty party." :))

No :) it is like "an uneasy conscience betrays itself." :)
Ukraine and USA immideately started shouting that they know who did it. Of course they know because it is they :))))

Wild Bill wrote: Of course it is much easier without investigation :)))))

Russia had the strength and position to force it's proxies to come to heel immediately. It chose to let the site be contaminated and to let the bodies lie rotting in the sun for a day or two instead.

Dosen't it seems suspicious that Ukraine and USA started to shouting they knew who did it immediately after crash?

nafod wrote:

Wild Bill wrote: Of course it is much easier without investigation :)))))

Russia had the strength and position to force it's proxies to come to heel immediately. It chose to let the site be contaminated and to let the bodies lie rotting in the sun for a day or two instead.

And what whould you say if Rusia enter there?

Agression! Invasion!!! :)))

Bill,
What our media in the US us telling us is:
1. The plane was definitely shot down. The missile was launched from a part of the Ukraine controlled by Russian Separatists. No one knows who fired the missile but most think Russian Separatists.
2. It definitely was a missile, not an onboard bomb.
3. Russian separatists who controlled the area did not let independent investigators in for several days, as if they had something to hide.
4. The area was "free" airspace, not restricted in any way. (Though the wisdom of flying through a warzone is questioned.)

What is your media telling you?

Wild Bill wrote: And what whould you say if Rusia enter there?

Agression! Invasion!!! :)))

They didn't need to enter. They needed to tell their proxies to clear out and let the investigation proceed. They didn't.

Wild Bill is one of the 83% of Russians who approve of Putin. When all your channels make Fox News look like NPR, and no other news is available, the vast majority get duped.

seeahill wrote:Bill,
What our media in the US us telling us is:
1. The plane was definitely shot down. The missile was launched from a part of the Ukraine controlled by Russian Separatists. No one knows who fired the missile but most think Russian Separatists.
2. It definitely was a missile, not an onboard bomb.
3. Russian separatists who controlled the area did not let independent investigators in for several days, as if they had something to hide.
4. The area was "free" airspace, not restricted in any way. (Though the wisdom of flying through a warzone is questioned.)

What is your media telling you?

"What is your media telling you?" honestly, i don't know exactly, haven't seen TV about 2-3 weeks already. Maybe only shortly...
but from what i seen and read
1. "The plane was definitely shot down." - in Russian sources - "nothing proved yet, there wasn't investigation... US was first shouting they new everything... and it is very suspicious...".

2. "It definitely was a missile, not an onboard bomb." - in Russian sources "it probably was missile, but there still wasn't any investigation...etc"

3. "Russian separatists who controlled the area did not let independent investigators in for several days, as if they had something to hide." - in russian sources "first of all it is not russian it is ukrainian separatists :) As for rest... quote: Obama claims that did not let independent investigators... but Dutch commision says they had no any pretension... "

4. "The area was "free" airspace, not restricted in any way." - in russian sourses the same. Only with remarks that this is war there.
And ukrainian dispetchers had corrected route. And after those corrections route were over that zone.

Not so very different then. USA probably yelled "missile" first because we have technology to detect that. The fact that we "shouted" first doesn't mean we did it, of course. It doesn't seem suspicious to me.

Other matters are too similar to dispute, but the Ukraine controllers telling the plane to divert doesn't seem to work. There were huge storms south in Turkey. The plane was avoiding storms and only 200 miles north of its planned route.

I'm glad you're telling me this, because we hear all sorts of things coming out of Russia. Like the plane was shot down by Ukraine because they thought Putin was on it. Or that the bodies were already dead and the plane was flown by remote control.

Well, we get crazy stuff that crazy Americans say. But we don't give them credence, because those people are nuts. I'm glad you aren't buying into any of the crazy shit.

" because we have technology to detect that" then it would be logical to show proofs?

Grandpa's Spells wrote:Wild Bill is one of the 83% of Russians who approve of Putin. When all your channels ...

an a what if you do not watch tv at all?

What news sources you consider independent? BBC? CNN?

I still think it could be evrything

" Or that the bodies were already dead and the plane was flown by remote control."
such news are impossible in oficial sources.
I saw that version on forums though:)

Believe it or not, but in russian official news all facts are proved.
May be they omit something, or add some comments wich can change meaning, but all facts in official sources could be easily proved.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:Wild Bill is one of the 83% of Russians who approve of Putin. When all your channels make Fox News look like NPR, and no other news is available, the vast majority get duped.

it's telling that the US jewsmedia promotes the notion that the typical putin-voting russian is an ill informed dupe.

cui bono?

Wild Bill wrote:Believe it or not, but in russian official news all facts are prooved..

Oh lord

right now the facts are: airliner crashed over Ukrainian territory. Thats all.

seeahill wrote:Bill,
What our media in the US us telling us is:
1. The plane was definitely shot down. The missile was launched from a part of the Ukraine controlled by Russian Separatists. No one knows who fired the missile but most think Russian Separatists.
2. It definitely was a missile, not an onboard bomb.
3. Russian separatists who controlled the area did not let independent investigators in for several days, as if they had something to hide.
4. The area was "free" airspace, not restricted in any way. (Though the wisdom of flying through a warzone is questioned.)

What is your media telling you?

Some snippets:

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/events ... telei-obse

Premier of Donetsk Republik denies that inter nations observers are not allowed to the crash site.

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/politi ... z-malaizyy

Black boxes are handed over to Malasians.

http://itar-tass.com/politika/1332217

Russian Ministry of Defense claims a Ukrainian fighter jet in the vicinity of Boeing-777 before the crash.

http://www.gazeta.ru/social/2014/07/18/6118853.shtml

Analysis of facts around the crash of Boeing-777. Why it changed the course, the workings of the anti-aircraft missile system BUK, allegedly used to shoot the plane down (apparently it is not as simple as pointing it at the target etc.)

http://m.expert.ru/expert/2014/30/luzitaniya/

Quite cynical discussion of the significance of the crush for Kiev.

These are just a few links to the stuff I read. There is also some anti-Russian sentiment by Russian journalists out there as well, and plenty of crazy stuff by conspiracy theorists.

from those only "itar-tass" worth reading