Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Herv100 wrote:
Herv100 wrote:LOL. Now it's coming out from another prisoner in the van that dude was trying to hurt himself, smashing his head/ neck against the seats and walls. Whoops, sorry about those riots.
Oh, and he supposedly had a spinal fusion surgery a couple weeks ago and was supposed to be on bed rest. Lulz
Probably not true:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryla ... story.html

The fringes on both sides are getting good at sending shit out through FB and the like that is bullshit. Yesterday some "City Paper" clowns accused specific people of antagonizing protesters, where video showed the "drunk redhead" trying to take a bag had just had her own purse snatched and was trying to get it back.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by Kazuya Mishima »

AS USUAL BROTHER NATHANAEL IS HERE TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN THE PROPER PERSPECTIVE

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9sCshUboug[/youtube]


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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

dead man walking wrote:
johno wrote:Riot now, facts later.
the decades have provided ample facts about the way the police treat black males.

.
All police, regardless of their 'shade of blue', right? I.E., black male cops treat black males the same as white cops do. Do I understand you correctly? Because that had been 101% my personal RL experience working side by side with black cops in Harlem.

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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by johno »

dead man walking wrote:
johno wrote:Riot now, facts later.
the decades have provided ample facts about the way the police treat black males.

by narrowing your attention to the spark, you ignore all the years the fuel was gathered in plain sight for the bonfire.

If we can't deal with police conduct & misconduct on a case-by-case basis, WHAT? Protest & riot after every black person has a bad outcome with police?

That approach can only further poison black kids' attitudes and erode race relations.
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by bennyonesix »

I've always been really pro-body cams for cops and in the minority and I think people are coming around...

I just KNOW that once people see what dealing with the average "inner city minority" is like, sentiment will swing wildly back to the cops...

Plus, it is the right and just thing.

ASSUMING that the technology is there of course...

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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by johno »

The technology exists but the privacy issues need to be worked out. Imagine that every police contact is recorded & subject to public disclosure, and subsequent internet publication. There would be some downsides there.
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by bennyonesix »

Well, there are pre and post custody interactions, no. The pre custody interactions present no sig problems. True, post custody there are various rights implicated (5th, 6th etc) but I don't see all that many problems or insurmountable ones anyway...

The downsides are all pretty much reputational...


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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by dead man walking »

johno wrote:
dead man walking wrote:
johno wrote:Riot now, facts later.
the decades have provided ample facts about the way the police treat black males.

by narrowing your attention to the spark, you ignore all the years the fuel was gathered in plain sight for the bonfire.

If we can't deal with police conduct & misconduct on a case-by-case basis, WHAT? Protest & riot after every black person has a bad outcome with police?

That approach can only further poison black kids' attitudes and erode race relations.
context and patterns of behavior, especially where race is a consideration, are part of each case.

and "bad outcome" is a wonderfully dismissive euphemism.
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by Pinky »

johno wrote:
Pinky wrote:So let's see an investigation where the officers involved are treated the same way the Baltimore PD would treat any other murder suspect.
You're right. Riots based on rumor are the way to go. Makes me nostalgic for the lynchin' days in the Ol' South.
It's hilarious that the guy talking about investigations and facts isn't capable of reading and responding to what someone actually wrote. When the facts do come out, I hope the person who explains them to you speaks slowly.
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

It's hard to imagine young Freddie was not the victim of excessive force given the crushed trachea in addition to the spinal fracture. With that said, I thought there was a part of Darren Wilson's testimony of what happened with Mike Brown that didn't ring right with me and it was The Obama's justice department under Holder's direction who put the final say so as to what the facts were (fully clearing Wilson of any wrongdoing) so for that alone, Imma gonna sit tight before I decide to loot a Popeye's or something.


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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by Andy83 »

WTF? Why all the IGx pseudo intellectual speculative meaningless bullshit? All there is here is a bunch of nigger kids out having some fun.
Obama's narcissism and arrogance is only superseded by his naivete and stupidity.

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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by DrDonkeyLove »

Kazuya Mishima wrote:AS USUAL BROTHER NATHANAEL IS HERE TO KEEP EVERYTHING IN THE PROPER PERSPECTIVE

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9sCshUboug[/youtube]
The last 20 seconds of this are gold.

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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by Kazuya Mishima »

Brother Nat is a hoot, but yes...the last 20 seconds of that video can't be argued with.


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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:
dead man walking wrote:
johno wrote:Riot now, facts later.
the decades have provided ample facts about the way the police treat black males.

.
All police, regardless of their 'shade of blue', right? I.E., black male cops treat black males the same as white cops do. Do I understand you correctly? Because that had been 101% my personal RL experience working side by side with black cops in Harlem.
Strolling dead dude, down the rabbit hole, what's your take on your comment WRT the color of the cops in your scenario?


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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by dead man walking »

bogatir,

there's a long history of ugly white-on-black aggression (i don't expect we need to cite examples), but as you point out, the problem of overzealous men in blue is not exclusively a problem of white on black. (i hadn't heard of "rough rides" until reading accounts of gray's death, but apparently cops of all colors have for years bounced difficult perps around in the back of paddy wagons.)

the white-on-black conflict is particularly explosive today, with deaths in ferguson, madison, new york, and cleveland fresh in people's minds. does the frequency of recent deaths reflect the norm, or are we seeing an anomaly? ultimately, i don't think it matters. as a society, we've got work to do. it's wrong to place the responsibility entirely on the cops or their victims. they're players in a much bigger drama, which is why people are taking to the streets . . . and everyone with a computer has got an opinion.
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by johno »

Pinky wrote:
johno wrote:
Pinky wrote:So let's see an investigation where the officers involved are treated the same way the Baltimore PD would treat any other murder suspect.
You're right. Riots based on rumor are the way to go. Makes me nostalgic for the lynchin' days in the Ol' South.
It's hilarious that the guy talking about investigations and facts isn't capable of reading and responding to what someone actually wrote. When the facts do come out, I hope the person who explains them to you speaks slowly.
I read your comment as supportive of street justice. If you meant it in some other way, carry on, Good Sir. And maybe explain further.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

W.B. Yeats


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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

dead man walking wrote:bogatir,

there's a long history of ugly white-on-black aggression (i don't expect we need to cite examples), but as you point out, the problem of overzealous men in blue is not exclusively a problem of white on black. (i hadn't heard of "rough rides" until reading accounts of gray's death, but apparently cops of all colors have for years bounced difficult perps around in the back of paddy wagons.)

the white-on-black conflict is particularly explosive today, with deaths in ferguson, madison, new york, and cleveland fresh in people's minds. does the frequency of recent deaths reflect the norm, or are we seeing an anomaly? ultimately, i don't think it matters. as a society, we've got work to do. it's wrong to place the responsibility entirely on the cops or their victims. they're players in a much bigger drama, which is why people are taking to the streets . . . and everyone with a computer has got an opinion.
Thanks for the response.

There's an equally long and much less talked about history of black on white aggression, too, no?

However, I wasn't pointing out anything about overzealous men in blue in my experience, quite the opposite, in fact, was my experience...i.e. great discipline was exercised far more often than not and we didn't have the 'fear' of smart phone cameras recording our every move. I was, however, pointing out that black cops act the same as white cops regardless of the scenario they're faced with. That's key. It's a massively important key, actually and no one wants to talk about it. Why? Because it brings to the forefront that it's not "racist pig cops" or "systemic racism" as much as it it a problem of black men committing a lion's share of the nation's street crime, period. Ergo, of course they're going to be in the news with much greater frequency in these tales.

Ferguson= cop justified, The Obama's people said so.

Staten Island= cop justified (although I freely admit I still scratch my head at that one) + the Patrol Supervisor on scene was a black female.

Cleveland= awful tragedy and horrible police work, but not justified? They'll be cleared.

So for 2 of the 3 you cite, there's nothing there and all that rioting and agony for nothing. The Cleveland incident will likely be 3/3. And remember it's not a vast, white man conspiracy that's calling those....it's left wing, minority driven leadership whose calling it.

EDIT: let's face it, Madison would not have made it past their local news as a race incident involving the police had there not been the other stories fresh in the media sizzle.

I dare say most people (the employed ones, anyway) "taking to the streets" are doing so because it's hip or opportunistic, not because they're infuriated over an injustice. I doubt a single employed IGx'er has protested once over any of the above.


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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by Protobuilder »

Kazuya Mishima wrote:Brother Nat is a hoot, but yes...the last 20 seconds of that video can't be argued with.
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by dead man walking »

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:
dead man walking wrote:bogatir,

there's a long history of ugly white-on-black aggression (i don't expect we need to cite examples), but as you point out, the problem of overzealous men in blue is not exclusively a problem of white on black. (i hadn't heard of "rough rides" until reading accounts of gray's death, but apparently cops of all colors have for years bounced difficult perps around in the back of paddy wagons.)

the white-on-black conflict is particularly explosive today, with deaths in ferguson, madison, new york, and cleveland fresh in people's minds. does the frequency of recent deaths reflect the norm, or are we seeing an anomaly? ultimately, i don't think it matters. as a society, we've got work to do. it's wrong to place the responsibility entirely on the cops or their victims. they're players in a much bigger drama, which is why people are taking to the streets . . . and everyone with a computer has got an opinion.
Thanks for the response.

There's an equally long and much less talked about history of black on white aggression, too, no?

However, I wasn't pointing out anything about overzealous men in blue in my experience, quite the opposite, in fact, was my experience...i.e. great discipline was exercised far more often than not and we didn't have the 'fear' of smart phone cameras recording our every move. I was, however, pointing out that black cops act the same as white cops regardless of the scenario they're faced with. That's key. It's a massively important key, actually and no one wants to talk about it. Why? Because it brings to the forefront that it's not "racist pig cops" or "systemic racism" as much as it it a problem of black men committing a lion's share of the nation's street crime, period. Ergo, of course they're going to be in the news with much greater frequency in these tales.

Ferguson= cop justified, The Obama's people said so.

Staten Island= cop justified (although I freely admit I still scratch my head at that one) + the Patrol Supervisor on scene was a black female.

Cleveland= awful tragedy and horrible police work, but not justified? They'll be cleared.

So for 2 of the 3 you cite, there's nothing there and all that rioting and agony for nothing. The Cleveland incident will likely be 3/3. And remember it's not a vast, white man conspiracy that's calling those....it's left wing, minority driven leadership whose calling it.

EDIT: let's face it, Madison would not have made it past their local news as a race incident involving the police had there not been the other stories fresh in the media sizzle.

I dare say most people (the employed ones, anyway) "taking to the streets" are doing so because it's hip or opportunistic, not because they're infuriated over an injustice. I doubt a single employed IGx'er has protested once over any of the above.
i appreciate your points about the discipline cops show and the legal determinations regarding the responses of the police.

that said, unarmed guys are ending up dead after an encounter with the police. how do we do better?
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

dead man walking wrote: that said, unarmed guys are ending up dead after an encounter with the police. how do we do better?
Define who is "We".


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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by dead man walking »

everyone. . . .

until we have eliminated corrosive racial hostility in society.

we're far from achieving that.
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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by Dunn »

Good posts so far.

As I work hand in hand with cops a good deal, I would like to chime in something. My own experience has been similar to Bogatyr's in that black cops tend to react very similarly to white cops. Typically if you present a threat of any kind, ie resisting arrest, you will get roughed up. We can't afford to take chances by being humane about how we put the perpetrator down. I cannot be certain that an individual is not on drugs, diseased, or armed until after the fact. With that being the case, I have had my fair share of instances where I have put the kibosh on an incident quickly, violently, and efficiently. My job is to do the work AND come home in one piece to my family. All that being said, in some of these cases I cannot grasp why the cop did not taser them since, from what I've seen, it looked like a viable alternative.

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Re: Whatever happend to CS gas and Watercannons?

Post by Dunn »

Good posts so far.

As I work hand in hand with cops a good deal, I would like to chime in something. My own experience has been similar to Bogatyr's in that black cops tend to react very similarly to white cops. Typically if you present a threat of any kind, ie resisting arrest, you will get roughed up. We can't afford to take chances by being humane about how we put the perpetrator down. I cannot be certain that an individual is not on drugs, diseased, or armed until after the fact. With that being the case, I have had my fair share of instances where I have put the kibosh on an incident quickly, violently, and efficiently. My job is to do the work AND come home in one piece to my family. All that being said, in some of these cases I cannot grasp why the cop did not taser them since, from what I've seen, it looked like a viable alternative.

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