IGX

Dunn wrote:Good posts so far.

As I work hand in hand with cops a good deal, I would like to chime in something. My own experience has been similar to Bogatyr's in that black cops tend to react very similarly to white cops. Typically if you present a threat of any kind, ie resisting arrest, you will get roughed up. We can't afford to take chances by being humane about how we put the perpetrator down. I cannot be certain that an individual is not on drugs, diseased, or armed until after the fact. With that being the case, I have had my fair share of instances where I have put the kibosh on an incident quickly, violently, and efficiently. My job is to do the work AND come home in one piece to my family. All that being said, in some of these cases I cannot grasp why the cop did not taser them since, from what I've seen, it looked like a viable alternative.

Damn, Dunn. It never occurred to me that we have a long time and reputable IGx'er whose been in the trenches in present/real time. Thanks for chiming-in with your two-cents. I shall dispatch Shapecharge to your base to blow you and your NCOIC, forthwith.

dead man walking wrote: how do we do better?

Body cams on cops will be a good start.
Ideally & ultimately, an effective technology for cops to safely immobilize resisting subjects without harm.
And there are all sorts of pie-in-the-sky ideas like compliance with lawful orders, understanding Due Process, etc.

It's interesting to see Tommy Carcetti integrating what's happened into his campaign.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdpG92dsx1A[/youtube]

Phaedrus wrote: What should police do if a guy simply takes off when he sees them?

Most will pursue but unless they have a specific law that forbids fleeing from the po po so long as you haven't broken any laws and have no warrants they have to cut you loose.

Ed Zachary wrote:

Phaedrus wrote: What should police do if a guy simply takes off when he sees them?

Most will pursue but unless they have a specific law that forbids fleeing from the po po so long as you haven't broken any laws and have no warrants they have to cut you loose.

Yup, that's automatic "reasonable suspicion". Also, do understand when they catch you (and it's extremely likely they will) you will be frisked for officer and public safety and that is also perfectly reasonable and logical.

The Charges Filed Against the Officers

Maximum sentences in red where specified.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr.

• Second-degree depraved-heart murder 30 years
• Involuntary manslaughter 10 years
• Second-degree assault 10 years
• Manslaughter by vehicle (gross negligence) 10 years
• Manslaughter by vehicle (criminal negligence) 3 years
• Misconduct in office

Officer William G. Porter

• Involuntary manslaughter 10 years
• Second-degree assault 10 years
• Misconduct in office

Lt. Brian W. Rice

• Involuntary manslaughter 10 years
• Two counts of second-degree assault Each has a maximum penalty of 10 years
• Two counts of misconduct in office
• False imprisonment

Officer Edward M. Nero

• Two counts of second-degree assault Each has a maximum penalty of 10 years
• Two counts of misconduct in office
• False imprisonment

Officer Garrett E. Miller

• Two counts of second-degree assault Each has a maximum penalty of 10 years
• Two counts of misconduct in office
• False imprisonment

Sgt. Alicia D. White

• Involuntary manslaughter 10 years
• Second-degree assault 10 years
• Misconduct in office

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015 ... -news&_r=0

I wonder how they came up with the false imprisonment charges.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2015/0 ... icide.html

False Imprisonment

Again in Maryland, false imprisonment is a common law misdemeanor, and is generally understood as "illegal confinement of one individual against his or her will by another individual in such a manner as to violate the confined individual's right to be free from restraint of movement."

As referenced above, the Mosby said officers had "failed to establish probable cause for an arrest," and therefore Gray's arrest itself was illegal. Police had said Gray was carrying an illegal switchblade, but the investigation determined the knife he was carrying was legal.

Mosby also pointed out that officers repeatedly ignored Gray's pleas for help and failed to seek medical attention for Gray until he was removed from the police van, at which time he was "no longer breathing at all."

dead man walking wrote:everyone. . . .

until we have eliminated corrosive racial hostility in society.

we're far from achieving that.

Spoken like a true Social Justice Warrior, DMW. People like yourself contribute to this mess by excusing behavior due to race.

What a witch hunt.

Yep. The cops will get off or only get minor convictions and they will riot again.

Total riot meltdown before Labor Day.

Those black cops indicted throw a monkey wrench in lefty hate mongering, though.

Let me just get this out of the way: light brown sugar prosecutor looks like she's on the hot side.

dead man walking wrote:everyone. . . .

until we have eliminated corrosive racial hostility in society.

we're far from achieving that.

Corrosive racial hostility is probably at it's lowest level in US history.

Did I mention DMW is from Philly?

That one fact explains everything.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:Did I mention DMW is from Philly? That one fact explains everything.

Fuck the Eagles.

Dunn wrote: My own experience has been similar to Bogatyr's in that black cops tend to react very similarly to white cops.

That suggests organizational culture as a root issue. Command climate. Leadership. The unspoken values of the organization.

My wife had to drive my MIL back to John's Hopkins for a visit last week. I was like... Are you sure? Really? But it daytime and it was OK. And frankly, it can't get any wrote right around Hopkins. Even the protestors probably keep their distance.

nafod wrote:

Dunn wrote: My own experience has been similar to Bogatyr's in that black cops tend to react very similarly to white cops.

That suggests organizational culture as a root issue. Command climate. Leadership. The unspoken values of the organization.

My wife had to drive my MIL back to John's Hopkins for a visit last week. I was like... Are you sure? Really? But it daytime and it was OK. And frankly, it can't get any wrote right around Hopkins. Even the protestors probably keep their distance.

Riots and crime are not evenly distributed in Baltimore.

nafod wrote:

Dunn wrote: My own experience has been similar to Bogatyr's in that black cops tend to react very similarly to white cops.

That suggests organizational culture as a root issue. Command climate. Leadership. The unspoken values of the organization.

My wife had to drive my MIL back to John's Hopkins for a visit last week. I was like... Are you sure? Really? But it daytime and it was OK. And frankly, it can't get any wrote right around Hopkins. Even the protestors probably keep their distance.

No, it suggests the police and other fist responders handle street trash the same way, colorblind, right or wrong. It's about the behavior of the people they're dealing with.

Ed Zachary wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:Did I mention DMW is from Philly? That one fact explains everything.

Fuck the Eagles.

release the hate.

embrace the catharsis.

dead man walking wrote:

Ed Zachary wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:Did I mention DMW is from Philly? That one fact explains everything.

Fuck the Eagles.

release the hate.

embrace the catharsis.

Kelly fucked the offense that is for sure.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:
No, it suggests the police and other fist responders handle street trash the same way, colorblind, right or wrong. It's about the behavior of the people they're dealing with.

So the people made them treat Gray the way they did? They couldn't help themselves? It was inevitable that they wouldn't call for medical?

I don't think so.

There were a number of different ways to respond here. The fact that no one squawked suggests an organizational norm. I get where working with that customer base would make you want to be that way, but that doesn't make it right. You can't let the douchebags set the standards for you. You have to own your own choices.

That said, Baltimore is a disgusting city that I have no desire to ever visit again.

Turdacious wrote:

dead man walking wrote:everyone. . . .

until we have eliminated corrosive racial hostility in society.

we're far from achieving that.

Corrosive racial hostility is probably at it's lowest level in US history.

spoken like a true white man

i am so relieved to hear that

They were rioting for the privilege to be treated as members of a racial group and demanding rights AS members of that group. They want to do bad shit and get away with it because they are members of a certain race.

Oh I forgot. That's good racism because they aren't white. "Corrosive racial hostility" is when white people do bad shit and want to get away with it because they are white.

This is all so fucking meta and I hate it.

The reality is: Black America is pissed at White America and wants revenge.

All this shit is pretext. The riots were individuals acting as members of an aggrieved tribe using violence to extort concessions from the dominant tribe. The aggrieved tribe could care less about the reality of their pretext.

Tribalism.