IGX

When are you fucks going to learn to separate how you *feel* about the "LEFT" from wtf is actually going on? At it's most interesting, it's at most a gotcha news story. One of the greatest American Athletes of all fuckin time lives his/her whole life (or maybe not..maybe it's a phase) and decide to do something about it over the course of a decade. Now that's a good story...like it or not, that's a second act in America...I'll allow it's newsworthy even if you're disgusted by it.

Meanwhile, back in the culture war, the left (they that nebulous them who run everything) make a to do about it...

Then the right makes a counter to do....

How in fucking hell does this rise to anything other than a long form kitty in a tree story? The utter nonsensical and static Right/Left shit this dredges up tells me how easily y'all get played.

I cannot for the life of me see how this is anything other than..

"Hmm...that's an X story..... "

(insert: a)weird, b)fucked up, c)tragic, d)sad, e)amazing f) All Of Above)

[syaigh=quote]I just say live and let live. Not everyone can live up to the standard of the "norm". As if there actually is a norm.[/quote]

What is happening here (what Jenner has portrayed) is the powerful symbolic enactment of the death of a cultural norm: my cultural norm.

Jenner was a Decathlete, handsome, successful, admired and a white male. He was the epitome of the dominant culture. And he rejected all he had as empty and went to the extent of clear mutilation to make his rejection permanent and un-ignorable. He was then embraced by the multitudes.

The thing is, hardly any of my tribe was outraged or critical of his choice.

Again, I do not expect someone like the deracinated Spells to respond strongly to this. If he felt part of my thing at some point, he has clearly rejected it... But, this Jenner thing is more than that. It is not mere rejection, it is embrace of another tribe. Jenner did not stand in limbo as the liberal white males do: rejecting their membership as white men but also not becoming something else. No, he went whole hog.

This is powerful primal stuff and I just don't get the meh? who cares? why are you so obsessed with this guy?

Blaidd Drwg wrote:When are you fucks going to learn to separate how you *feel* about the "LEFT" from wtf is actually going on? At it's most interesting, it's at most a gotcha news story. One of the greatest American Athletes of all fuckin time lives his/her whole life (or maybe not..maybe it's a phase) and decide to do something about it over the course of a decade. Now that's a good story...like it or not, that's a second act in America...I'll allow it's newsworthy even if you're disgusted by it.

Meanwhile, back in the culture war, the left (they that nebulous them who run everything) make a to do about it...

Then the right makes a counter to do....

How in fucking hell does this rise to anything other than a long form kitty in a tree story? The utter nonsensical and static Right/Left shit this dredges up tells me how easily y'all get played.

I cannot for the life of me see how this is anything other than..

"Hmm...that's an X story..... "

(insert: a)weird, b)fucked up, c)tragic, d)sad, e)amazing f) All Of Above)

DUDE, we all get your point!

You are utterly deracinated and want to be left alone to fuck and do your drugz.

It irks you when people talk about things larger than that.

I for one can imagine few things worse than a life as compatriot clone of the utterly nasty Bill Mahr and sub-par Joe Rogan.

What the actual fuck are you blathering about?

You culture niggers see tea leaves in the fuckin tea leaves.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7aLXehSXAo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSeuDDzjIB8[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtolv9kM1qk[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLkuLcbIJKA[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe93CLbHjxQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhp9to0hMNM[/youtube]

bennyonesix, Kaz, YID, Norman Rockwell wrote:We're Skeert of Chix With Dix

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KeplwDwEB4[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVXmMMSo47s[/youtube]

I THINK LOU REED IS A CREEP!!!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFud9f9t3gM[/youtube]

Marriage is for procreation only.

When I want to know how Liberals think, I ask a Tea-Party Republican, or a Rugged Individualist Libertarian Who Just Happens to Vote Republican 100% of the Time™.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRkcBcyB7v4[/youtube]

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

BAILEY JAY WAS NEVER MY HERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111

I JUST JERK TO HER OCCASIONALLY!!!!!!11111

Nice one CCanem.

I am partial to this one:

Don't the sun look angry at me...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0J3ossUzhU[/youtube]

bennyonesix wrote:[syaigh=quote]I just say live and let live. Not everyone can live up to the standard of the "norm". As if there actually is a norm.

What is happening here (what Jenner has portrayed) is the powerful symbolic enactment of the death of a cultural norm: my cultural norm.

Jenner was a Decathlete, handsome, successful, admired and a white male. He was the epitome of the dominant culture. And he rejected all he had as empty and went to the extent of clear mutilation to make his rejection permanent and un-ignorable. He was then embraced by the multitudes.

The thing is, hardly any of my tribe was outraged or critical of his choice.

Again, I do not expect someone like the deracinated Spells to respond strongly to this. If he felt part of my thing at some point, he has clearly rejected it... But, this Jenner thing is more than that. It is not mere rejection, it is embrace of another tribe. Jenner did not stand in limbo as the liberal white males do: rejecting their membership as white men but also not becoming something else. No, he went whole hog.

This is powerful primal stuff and I just don't get the meh? who cares? why are you so obsessed with this guy?

[/quote]

Look. I don't know how old you are but his is why I feel the way I do. We spend probably the first 30 years or so of out lives trying to be someone that matters. We want to make something of ourselves. And that matters a lot. And then we get older and more comfortable in our skins and realize that people will decide who we are for themselves and there's nothing we can do about it. There are a lot of expectations that come with accomplishment. I know a lot of "big deals" and they'll be the first to tell you that its an uncomfortable role to play. A couple of weekends ago I had the opportunity to compete with THE women's world champion in my sport. A very humble gal who just loves the game but a lifelong athlete and almost Olympian. But you know what? She was pretty guarded at times because no one really knew how to talk to her. Everyone either wanted praise, advice, or to openly challenge her. Its lonely at the top and I can see how when your whole being is defined by your accomplishments in one area of your life, you can probably feel pretty trapped. There but for the grace of god go you or I. Defy definition by refusing to pigeonhole others. Its liberating. Bruce Jenner is just a man who did some incredible things. Those things are done and still great. But he has moved on and we shouldn't keep him pinned to his gold medals and his Wheaties box cover. It just isn't fair. We all have the right to change.

TL;DR: You appear to deny that people and events and actions (or at least Jenner) can have cultural significance. I do not. I think Jenner has great cultural significance and you apparently do not. I don't know what to say other than that, really. But I wrote the below FWIW.


I think there is a thing called culture and that it is a communally and intellectually manufactured thing. I think that the culture in which one exists has a significant effect on one's life. I also think that Jenner has been taken up by a great many people as a cultural exemplar like Achilles or MLK or Ghandi. That will effect the culture in which I find myself in the same way as an Achilles and a Ghandi molded their culture.

As to your question, I am 42 and a nobody by most standards. And hardly anyone I know is more world weary or less impressed with successful people than I am. But that is no better than someone enamored of the successful. The successful are both special and walk on feet of clay. They are both persons and symbols.

Bruce Jenner the person doing what he did to himself (impose on his acts what quality you will) is uninteresting. To me he is just another messed up dude, but one who thinks people should care about his issues.

But Bruce made himself into a cultural symbol. He (with the help of society) created an abstract thing through athletic excellence and shameless self promotion. That is what this is about. That is why millions are fascinated with him. Bruce can't go back if he wanted to and there is nothing to indicate that he does want to go back. Bottom line, people's aspirations are changing because he is a symbol. Not the entire country's and maybe not yours but it is changing for millions. For all of us there are moments we remember and think were "important" for us. This is one of those things for millions of people. I think that is a big deal.

It seems that you think I refuse to see Bruce as a person, I don't. He gets up sore and goes to bed exhausted and yells at people he shouldn't and has regrets large and small. I would really like to talk to "the guy". From all accounts he is interesting and thoughtful.

It also seems that you refuse to see Bruce as a cultural symbol. And not only that, you seem to think I am somehow wronging him or myself by treating him as one. I don't know what to say other than what I keep saying: millions on millions disagree with you as to his symbolic significance.

You played the Bailey Jay card. Not fair.

bennyonesix wrote:TL;DR: You appear to deny that people and events and actions (or at least Jenner) can have cultural significance. I do not. I think Jenner has great cultural significance and you apparently do not. I don't know what to say other than that, really. But I wrote the below FWIW.


I think there is a thing called culture and that it is a communally and intellectually manufactured thing. I think that the culture in which one exists has a significant effect on one's life. I also think that Jenner has been taken up by a great many people as a cultural exemplar like Achilles or MLK or Ghandi. That will effect the culture in which I find myself in the same way as an Achilles and a Ghandi molded their culture.

As to your question, I am 42 and a nobody by most standards. And hardly anyone I know is more world weary or less impressed with successful people than I am. But that is no better than someone enamored of the successful. The successful are both special and walk on feet of clay. They are both persons and symbols.

Bruce Jenner the person doing what he did to himself (impose on his acts what quality you will) is uninteresting. To me he is just another messed up dude, but one who thinks people should care about his issues.

But Bruce made himself into a cultural symbol. He (with the help of society) created an abstract thing through athletic excellence and shameless self promotion. That is what this is about. That is why millions are fascinated with him. Bruce can't go back if he wanted to and there is nothing to indicate that he does want to go back. Bottom line, people's aspirations are changing because he is a symbol. Not the entire country's and maybe not yours but it is changing for millions. For all of us there are moments we remember and think were "important" for us. This is one of those things for millions of people. I think that is a big deal.

It seems that you think I refuse to see Bruce as a person, I don't. He gets up sore and goes to bed exhausted and yells at people he shouldn't and has regrets large and small. I would really like to talk to "the guy". From all accounts he is interesting and thoughtful.

It also seems that you refuse to see Bruce as a cultural symbol. And not only that, you seem to think I am somehow wronging him or myself by treating him as one. I don't know what to say other than what I keep saying: millions on millions disagree with you as to his symbolic significance.

I think you were responding to me?

I don't refuse to see anything. I know his significance. I just don't care about the new form hes taken. It's another chapter in his story and it doesn't rewrite the other ones in my opinion . I remember that Olympics. I remember him as an American icon. This new thing that he is doing doesn't interest me. I have empathy for any suffering he has gone through but I just don't think it changes the past. He was one of the great American athletes.

I don't think you are wronging yourself, you just seem really bothered by it. I am not bothered by it. Maybe it will lessen some other peoples struggles. Maybe it will make others more resolute in their intolerance. I hope it causes more good than bad. But that's about all I think about it.

I'm kinda liking Bruce the Messiah.

He's not the hero we wanted. He's the hero we needed.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcBOcwgb4OA[/youtube]