IGX

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

SubClaw wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

SubClaw wrote: If cutting the hand by the wrist doesn't stop gangrene from spreading, maybe it's time to sever the entire arm. 'Carthago delenda est'.

No chechens left alive means no chechen terrorism.

Silly posing aside, we don't have an interests in the ME that wouldn't be screwed up by genocide or nukes. Maybe it makes more sense to let the place work out its own problems, since the locals there would probably prefer fighting ISIS to being killed by us.

Really? Are you paying any attention at all to what is happening? Get your head out of your ass.

I am, so I don't think you followed what I was responding to. Subclaw is suggesting nuking the middle east or ethnically cleansing it.

BTW, fascinating similarities between one man's vision of Sharia and our Bernie Sanders:

Choudary said Sharia has been misunderstood because of its incomplete application by regimes such as Saudi Arabia, which does behead murderers and cut off thieves’ hands. “The problem,” he explained, “is that when places like Saudi Arabia just implement the penal code, and don’t provide the social and economic justice of the Sharia—the whole package—they simply engender hatred toward the Sharia.” That whole package, he said, would include free housing, food, and clothing for all, though of course anyone who wished to enrich himself with work could do so.

From Atlantic article.

Admittedly, Bernie goes a bit farther with Free College for All.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

SubClaw wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

SubClaw wrote: If cutting the hand by the wrist doesn't stop gangrene from spreading, maybe it's time to sever the entire arm. 'Carthago delenda est'.

No chechens left alive means no chechen terrorism.

Silly posing aside, we don't have an interests in the ME that wouldn't be screwed up by genocide or nukes. Maybe it makes more sense to let the place work out its own problems, since the locals there would probably prefer fighting ISIS to being killed by us.

Really? Are you paying any attention at all to what is happening? Get your head out of your ass.

I am, so I don't think you followed what I was responding to. Subclaw is suggesting nuking the middle east or ethnically cleansing it.

Enlarged print. The locals have proven completely incapable of fighting IS on their own. In many cases, unwilling to fight at all. That's why they have so much of our stuff.

johno wrote:BTW, fascinating similarities between one man's vision of Sharia and our Bernie Sanders:

Choudary said Sharia has been misunderstood because of its incomplete application by regimes such as Saudi Arabia, which does behead murderers and cut off thieves’ hands. “The problem,” he explained, “is that when places like Saudi Arabia just implement the penal code, and don’t provide the social and economic justice of the Sharia—the whole package—they simply engender hatred toward the Sharia.” That whole package, he said, would include free housing, food, and clothing for all, though of course anyone who wished to enrich himself with work could do so.

From Atlantic article.

Admittedly, Bernie goes a bit farther with Free College for All.

That's mighty white of him.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

SubClaw wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

SubClaw wrote:Someone attacks you in the street with a knife, but you refuse to kick him in the balls because it's not "honorable". That's exactly what's happening here.

Shoot the guy with the knife in the head. Don't take a flamethrower to the neighborhood he's been terrorizing.

It depends. If the guy with the knife has a lot of angry brothers, maybe it would be wise to torch the whole neighborhood.

Russia did exactly that with Grozny. Twice, I think. Did not eliminate Chechen terrorism.

Interesting point. Russia's closed fist hasn't stopped their terrorism nor has Britain & France's open arms. It seems that neither assuages the Islamo-fascists. A point worth noting.

What's to be done? Many things, but the most important is protecting the homeland.

Create the worlds nicest refugee camp in some safe area over there and only let people into this country who are fully vetted and clearly committed to being pluralistic and productive citizens of our country. If every one of them that Obama wants to let in meet the criteria, welcome them to their new home. If none of them do, fuck them all. If it takes three or four years to work through the tens of thousands, so be it.

There are plenty of wealthy Muslim countries near Syria. Let them demonstrate their brotherhood.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

DARTH wrote:
Not really arguing with you. Agreeing on the larger problem is our own scum but you have to have far less patience and tolerance for outside scum.

Figuring out who is scum and who is not is tough stuff and I am not confident we as an American collective have the stomach for it....which is why The Obama is right to send in dark and spooky, smart, and highly trained men to do what most people don't want to know is getting done....along with his drone strikes. I also think those same guys (the dark and shadowy ones) *know* they need a level of trust and respect with Muslims not in their laser sites. Search this year's comments on "Stop, Question, and Frisk" alone here on FSF as far as 'simple' policing goes and see how hard it's going to be to do what a lot of people think they want done in terms of round-ups, door-to-doors, ect.

The problem as I see it, as our aforementioned warriors and their peers bearing other flags, can't do it all and won't be able to do any of it when it happens here in terms of hunting and destroying these guys. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I think in our lifetime, the time has come for these types of people (ISIS) to fear their intended victims, and taking one's pale and shovel and cap gun home as Spells suggests is NOT going to help us one iota with this group....just the opposite, in fact.

I actually love that the Anonymous guys are gunning for ISIS, which can only mean they will work to peel back the onion of their supporters and raise hell with them too....Putin claims to have intel that G20 members are contributing to ISIS as are a lot of private funders and we'd be foolish to assume he is even remotely wrong (or lying).

Again by our own scum I mean criminals and well, you know who's job that is? You used to do that and we have due process and I’d start blowing shit up if we chuck that aside FOR CITIZENS. I think right now it is a bigger issue in day to day America than ISIS but that could flip with the attainment of certain weapons. Shit i feel like one of the few Right wingers on facebook pointing out the short-sightedness of this idea that if you qualify for some kind of money service or assistance from the government, somehow that means you have to put aside your 4th and 5th Amendment rights. How that can be usde to open Pandora's box, much like pointed out to you the long island story as why firearms registration can get fucked because it is being used on people. A guy in a Motorcycle Club with no felonies had permits and guns. the cops called him ion and took his guns and told him as long as he is in his M.C. they won;t let him have his guns.
I'm Darth the Civil Libertarian! But I degrees.

Man the point you made about Putin's claim has got me riled. That man is an asshole, he is a bit of a thug but the fucker at least plays for team Russia and he sees how under Obama how fucked the government is and he very well might have some info on nefarious elites selling us all to shit. The modern elites are not the old ones, those guys still had nationalism, they were still tied and part of their country a lpt more than now. Now it means shit, everywhere is the same when you have billions of $$$.

If I was still a preteen and plagued by the Nostradomus shit, I'd be freaking because one of the interpretations is that Russia would work with Iran and nuke us and it be years of suffering and shit until they get stabbed by the rags and then we come together and conquer the world. Man if a kid watched " The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" now it could be bad for them. I used to turn off any Nostradomus shit on History ch when we had kids. While I do tell the oldest that there is a level of awareness that we could live through a near extinction event, I also don’t hit him over the head and say " It's coming!" more I do things to harden him and generally prepare him in case of a myriad of not improbable events in his life. He has no intrest in the military and I will not pass my old wishes on him but I do let him know he could find his ass facing conscription. We could have a solar storm and it all comes down at any time. or I myself lived through a hurricane and those temporary breakdowns can be motherfuckers. At the same time I tell him there is a 50% chance that shit might actually get better or at least the SNAFU we grew up with as opposed to the FUBAR we are in. In that case he'll have an edge when dealing with yuppies who try to act tough and they'll quickly know they are dealing with a man who could break them and fuck their women, her screaming in pleasure as the fucker dies from his crushed throat and ribs thrust in his lung.

Kind of like that cop look you kept giving me when we first ate dinner together. ( "I like this big motherfucker, he stares into you! he's measuring me up right now and not being coy about it at all. " ) ;-)

johno wrote:There are plenty of wealthy Muslim countries near Syria. Let them demonstrate their brotherhood.

I like how you keep hitting on that at other places on this subject because that is the main thing right there. What, we have some kind of shortage of Islamo assholes and cowards who leave their children and women in the shit while they head for welfare land?

Fucking let them go to Antarctica, it is everyone's land! Fucking Ice Jawas! Then we can drop off some polar bears and have a kick ass reality show!

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footbal ... 16436.html

Watch Ireland vs Bosnia fans boo minute's silence for Paris attack victims before Euro 2016 play-off

And these are, supposedly, the moderate ones who live among us, enjoying all kinds of freedom.

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:Enlarged print. The locals have proven completely incapable of fighting IS on their own. In many cases, unwilling to fight at all. That's why they have so much of our stuff.

Yeah, they aren't having a good time. Perhaps the governments there are waiting for us to solve it, or perhaps they're completely incapable. In which case, those unfortunate people get to live in a dysfunctional country ruled by ISIS.

My point was that any people will prefer fighting/running from/losing to/being ruled by ISIS to getting nuked by the US, and nuking them will wipe out any interests we have there, so it's a silly point. Just leave the place completely alone. It works fine for other distant countries and is historically successful.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:Enlarged print. The locals have proven completely incapable of fighting IS on their own. In many cases, unwilling to fight at all. That's why they have so much of our stuff.

Yeah, they aren't having a good time. Perhaps the governments there are waiting for us to solve it, or perhaps they're completely incapable. In which case, those unfortunate people get to live in a dysfunctional country ruled by ISIS.

My point was that any people will prefer fighting/running from/losing to/being ruled by ISIS to getting nuked by the US, and nuking them will wipe out any interests we have there, so it's a silly point. Just leave the place completely alone. It works fine for other distant countries and is historically successful.

We left Afghanistan alone for about 10-12 years. That didn't work too well.
This brings us back to somewhere between nuking 'me all and doing nothing.

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:We left Afghanistan alone for about 10-12 years. That didn't work too well.

Wait, what? Did you just blame 9/11 on our not fixing Afghanistan? There are failed states all over. Unless you fix them everywhere, terrorists will have somewhere to go.

And they didn't pick us because we didn't fix Afghanistan. 9/11 was completely unjustifiable. It was terrible. But they picked the US to attack for very specific reasons, which they've been very upfront about from the beginnings. It's not because of our freedoms. It's because we've been meddling over there for a long, long time, and continue to.

The answer after 9/11 was to go fuck some shit up, because you have to. But 14 years later, it's time to start considering the blow back of the moral compromises we have made in that part of the world, and see if benign neglect doesn't work better.

This brings us back to somewhere between nuking 'me all and doing nothing.

Which consists of what, and what is the end game?

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:Enlarged print. The locals have proven completely incapable of fighting IS on their own. In many cases, unwilling to fight at all. That's why they have so much of our stuff.

My point was that any people will prefer fighting/running from/losing to/being ruled by ISIS to getting nuked by the US, and nuking them will wipe out any interests we have there, so it's a silly point. Just leave the place completely alone. It works fine for other distant countries and is historically successful.

No it wont. The rags will be dust the oil will be in the ground. Crack the glass and go. Plenty of old nuke test ground zeros you can go to plus 2 Japanese cities and the site of a meltdown in the former USSR all you can go to and people do and don;t get sick and die.

The namesack of the training forum told me about decontamination measure they can take on an area to enter it and exploit it soon after a nuke strike. I've read on nuclear weapons since I was 10 and I did not know how much they can actually do to decon an A.O. and use it. Short of that, robotics gets better all the time.

Other than world opinion, nuking the Middle East, while you can make moral arguments about it is exactly the kind of shit to make the ones that survive drop to their knees and know their God was a myth.

You forget their ancestors were converted by the sword from much more humane, attractive religions and in their now held sick faith " All is as God wills it." So Mecca, Medina and some open desert gets nuked that says either God wants them to suffer or it's a lie. Nuke them and then ELINT through all of their media, radio and comms " We are your masters, bow down, denounce your false God or we resume!"

Is it likely near term? Hell no! But is it possible? Yeah, it is. this canard that " it's against our way, oh it would change us." kind of falls down a few pegs when you think the conquest and subjugation of the Native American tribes, the suppression of the Moros in the Philippines, the way we bombed the Japanese in WW2 ( a lot more strait up targeting and attempted and successful killing of civilians than in the European theatre because their conduct towards us in the war was way less honourable and humane than the Germans. The public did not know about the Concentration camps till the end, they knew about what scumfucks the Japs could be before the war and during it.

Did we lose what it meant to us to be American? No and our definition of who we include as "Us" has had chages and can do so again. Fuck we killed our own in the Civil War and no one has killed more Americans in war than other Americans. Yeah let us get nuked, Bio-Chemed or dirtybombed and you very well might see it happen.

Fucking people act like the end of the Cold war made it all go away. Fucking quite enough nukes in our arsenal to slag the world alone. Fuck we and the Russians get back on track and the rags fuck with both of us and we might use the M.E. to play the ICBM version of Jarts (Lawn darts) with each other. " Pretty good Vlad, you airbursted that bitch right over Sana'a's center perfectly! Now watch what we do with a 10 MRV payload! 5 for Mecca, 5 for Medina."

Double post!

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:We left Afghanistan alone for about 10-12 years. That didn't work too well.

Wait, what? Did you just blame 9/11 on our not fixing Afghanistan? There are failed states all over. Unless you fix them everywhere, terrorists will have somewhere to go.

And they didn't pick us because we didn't fix Afghanistan. 9/11 was completely unjustifiable. It was terrible. But they picked the US to attack for very specific reasons, which they've been very upfront about from the beginnings. It's not because of our freedoms. It's because we've been meddling over there for a long, long time, and continue to.

The answer after 9/11 was to go fuck some shit up, because you have to. But 14 years later, it's time to start considering the blow back of the moral compromises we have made in that part of the world, and see if benign neglect doesn't work better.

This brings us back to somewhere between nuking 'me all and doing nothing.

Which consists of what, and what is the end game?

No, I did not blame 9/11 on not fixing Afghanistan.
We left Afghanistan alone through the 90s and al Quaeda moved in. Despite several attacks, we launched a few cruise missiles and that was it. Then, after 9/11 we got more serious and much more effective. But eventually we got stupid and tried to build a nation.
Also, after Iraq started to go south, the dems decided to make political hay by saying we had diverted troops that were needed for the good war to the bad war. Even though many of them voted for the bad war. So we doubled down.
All of it was stupid.
So was overthrowing Quaddafy and trying to overthrow Assad.
We should start by giving up on overthrowing brutal dictators and trying to turn their nations into democracies. Clearly, Muslims do better when kept under the thumb of brutal dictators.
The Kurds seem reasonable enough. They can fight with our help and they can provide us with a base from which to hit IS hard and often without trying to build schools and governing structures. Control our borders. Stop committing cultural suicide. Realize that Western Civilization is superior to theirs and act accordingly.
I'm all for immigration, but only for the ones who want to live in the west, not the ones who want to transplant their cancerous gutter culture.

DARTH wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

DARTH wrote:
Not really arguing with you. Agreeing on the larger problem is our own scum but you have to have far less patience and tolerance for outside scum.

Figuring out who is scum and who is not is tough stuff and I am not confident we as an American collective have the stomach for it....which is why The Obama is right to send in dark and spooky, smart, and highly trained men to do what most people don't want to know is getting done....along with his drone strikes. I also think those same guys (the dark and shadowy ones) *know* they need a level of trust and respect with Muslims not in their laser sites. Search this year's comments on "Stop, Question, and Frisk" alone here on FSF as far as 'simple' policing goes and see how hard it's going to be to do what a lot of people think they want done in terms of round-ups, door-to-doors, ect.

The problem as I see it, as our aforementioned warriors and their peers bearing other flags, can't do it all and won't be able to do any of it when it happens here in terms of hunting and destroying these guys. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I think in our lifetime, the time has come for these types of people (ISIS) to fear their intended victims, and taking one's pale and shovel and cap gun home as Spells suggests is NOT going to help us one iota with this group....just the opposite, in fact.

I actually love that the Anonymous guys are gunning for ISIS, which can only mean they will work to peel back the onion of their supporters and raise hell with them too....Putin claims to have intel that G20 members are contributing to ISIS as are a lot of private funders and we'd be foolish to assume he is even remotely wrong (or lying).

Again by our own scum I mean criminals and well, you know who's job that is? You used to do that and we have due process and I’d start blowing shit up if we chuck that aside FOR CITIZENS. I think right now it is a bigger issue in day to day America than ISIS but that could flip with the attainment of certain weapons. Shit i feel like one of the few Right wingers on facebook pointing out the short-sightedness of this idea that if you qualify for some kind of money service or assistance from the government, somehow that means you have to put aside your 4th and 5th Amendment rights. How that can be usde to open Pandora's box, much like pointed out to you the long island story as why firearms registration can get fucked because it is being used on people. A guy in a Motorcycle Club with no felonies had permits and guns. the cops called him ion and took his guns and told him as long as he is in his M.C. they won;t let him have his guns.
I'm Darth the Civil Libertarian! But I degrees.

Man the point you made about Putin's claim has got me riled. That man is an asshole, he is a bit of a thug but the fucker at least plays for team Russia and he sees how under Obama how fucked the government is and he very well might have some info on nefarious elites selling us all to shit. The modern elites are not the old ones, those guys still had nationalism, they were still tied and part of their country a lpt more than now. Now it means shit, everywhere is the same when you have billions of $$$.

If I was still a preteen and plagued by the Nostradomus shit, I'd be freaking because one of the interpretations is that Russia would work with Iran and nuke us and it be years of suffering and shit until they get stabbed by the rags and then we come together and conquer the world. Man if a kid watched " The Man Who Saw Tomorrow" now it could be bad for them. I used to turn off any Nostradomus shit on History ch when we had kids. While I do tell the oldest that there is a level of awareness that we could live through a near extinction event, I also don’t hit him over the head and say " It's coming!" more I do things to harden him and generally prepare him in case of a myriad of not improbable events in his life. He has no intrest in the military and I will not pass my old wishes on him but I do let him know he could find his ass facing conscription. We could have a solar storm and it all comes down at any time. or I myself lived through a hurricane and those temporary breakdowns can be motherfuckers. At the same time I tell him there is a 50% chance that shit might actually get better or at least the SNAFU we grew up with as opposed to the FUBAR we are in. In that case he'll have an edge when dealing with yuppies who try to act tough and they'll quickly know they are dealing with a man who could break them and fuck their women, her screaming in pleasure as the fucker dies from his crushed throat and ribs thrust in his lung.

Kind of like that cop look you kept giving me when we first ate dinner together. ( "I like this big motherfucker, he stares into you! he's measuring me up right now and not being coy about it at all. " ) ;-)

We are talking about fixing two different problems. You're concerned with letting more in and I will let you and others fight that losing battle online or elsewhere. I'm more concerned with ferreting out what is already here, be they US Citizens or 'refugees'. As an example, I 'worry' more about the Somali population already here than the fight and 'plight' of the 10k refugees The Obama wants to bring in.

A cop, can use his experience to 'profile' who may or may not look like a citizen (or a mope vs. non-mope), but it's kinda illegal, so the best 'weapon' we have in the 'war on terror' as far as ISIS goes is to demean them and make recruiting for them difficult. Make young, potential, recruits say 'fuck that', let's go play XBox. You don't get that done by giving XBoxes away, I think we agree....you do it by shoving a pork chop in the mouth of a dying 'jihadist'.

I suspect the damage is done already in terms of what is here on our soil is what I am saying and have been saying. Russia, now the Frogs, The Obama's A team spec ops guys and drones will do what the are doing overseas. What are we going to do about over here for the dirt pigs that are already here? Or more importantly, the smarter, ones, who are perhaps at an easily influenced stage of their lives, but not yet recruited?

As far as the 'primary' concerns I keep talking about go, if you ask me: PsyOps of sorts is the way to go with them, along with a healthy and reasonable acceptance of Stop, Question, and Frisk, and (open) carry of sidearms for capable and qualified citizens, and quick punishment of convicted crimes that actually matter to those being punished, that is how it will work. Anyone think it's a stretch to think that the way The Obama handled Ferguson, Eric Garner, mass shootings, and other instances of deadly shame on our soil has helped embolden the bad ys? Be they citizens, or not, jihadists, or not, terrorists, or not?

BTW, I never gave you 'the cop look' over dinner and I was 'only' around 225# back then, so I've gotten much larger.....I just was trying to make eye contact. (Yes, I know most here won't 'get' the joke but I know you will take it in good spirit as it's intended.) ;-)

no homoflirting

TerryB wrote:no homoflirting

I am sick of you.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

TerryB wrote:no homoflirting

I am sick of you.

"Proto has flashbacks to his childhood"

Beer Jew wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

TerryB wrote:no homoflirting

I am sick of you.

"Proto has flashbacks to his childhood"

LOL!

Re: ISIS - we don't have to get fancy. If possessing territory is essential to the Caliphate, make them stateless and homeless.
If "winning" attracts more converts, then kill them & post to social media.

AND attack their funding. AND attack/challenge their religious authority. AND....

The one thing we cannot do, because the American people don't have the patience for it, is nation build. Actually, it's tragic.

johno wrote:Re: ISIS - we don't have to get fancy. If possessing territory is essential to the Caliphate, make them stateless and homeless.
If "winning" attracts more converts, then kill them & post to social media.

AND attack their funding. AND attack/challenge their religious authority. AND....

The one thing we cannot do, because the American people don't have the patience for it, is nation build. Actually, it's tragic.

This.
They do possess territory. They have a capital city; Raqqa. Why is it still standing?
Everyone is pussyfooting around; the French, us, the vaunted Russians. Turn it to a pile of rubble, then set fire to the rubble.
And all the rest.

The Ginger Beard Man wrote:

johno wrote:Re: ISIS - we don't have to get fancy. If possessing territory is essential to the Caliphate, make them stateless and homeless.
If "winning" attracts more converts, then kill them & post to social media.

AND attack their funding. AND attack/challenge their religious authority. AND....

The one thing we cannot do, because the American people don't have the patience for it, is nation build. Actually, it's tragic.

This.
They do possess territory. They have a capital city; Raqqa. Why is it still standing?
Everyone is pussyfooting around; the French, us, the vaunted Russians. Turn it to a pile of rubble, then set fire to the rubble.
And all the rest.

Bah, I hate to summarily disagree with both of you, but hey, I am cool with turning Raqqa to glass for giggles. Do it. Watch it not have any positive effect on recruitment (positive from our viewpoint). Now shove a fucking Mickey D's sausage biscuit in the mouth of a guy with his Axed backed hair-do before you slash his throat and rinse and repeat on social media and you will get things done. I don't think I am being horrific or abusive here, I am just making sense.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:Now shove a fucking Mickey D's sausage biscuit in the mouth of a guy with his Axed backed hair-do before you slash his throat and rinse and repeat on social media and you will get things done.

That's completely in line with my post: Whatever sinks their boat. Let's do it.

We need mean fag brigades whose sole purpose is to sodomize these cunts until they bleed out, then we distribute the video on pornhub