IGX

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote: I think guns should be a wee bit harder to get a hold of, I don't really care if the shooter is Christian or Muslim, right wing or left.

Uh, see Shaf's comment about the millions of illegal guns out there. Your desire to make guns tougher to get a hold of for the legit folks is what's nuts at its core. Yes, yes, I realize some of these mass shooters have legit purchased weapons, but that is not the *problem* on the whole WRT American gun violence and if this is a primer to our future, and our kid's future, you might want to consider getting armed yourself. Bad guys hate armed good guys.

I think what you're suggesting is that, if we make guns harder to get a hold of, it won't stop criminals, but will stop non-criminals, and therefore will not reduce tragedies.

None of that is true. Per capita gun deaths rise steadily as gun ownership increases. Conservative news focuses heavily on absolute numbers, but that's because it's convenient. Here's what the real numbers look like:



Good data is hard to find, but that's because the GOP blocks federal research into the problem. When one side is blocking research, chances are the facts aren't on their side.

What does this graph really mean?

I understand gun deaths per 100K but upon what data is the % of households with guns based? Does this graph count murders, suicides, and accidents? Are illegal guns included in the % of households with gun ownership? What specific geographies (read race) have the highest and lowest death rates.

South Dakota has a similar % of gun ownership as Wyoming but the death count is much less. Gun friendly South Dakota has a much higher % of gun ownership per household than gun unfriendly Maryland yet has a lower death count.

This graph implies something but not necessarily what we're meant to infer. And, it's from Mother Jones which may be completely opposite of the NRA in their conclusions but equally biased in approach. I smell fish.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Pretty weak R-squared there. For the math novitiate, that means a line fit is a poor representation of the data. If you look around the 45-50% mark on the abscissa you can see the states to the low side are close to those with 10-20% ownership. North and South Dakota are right there with California. I'd be curious to see other metrics against per capita death rate, say state wealth, for instance. Especially given some of the worst are the dirt poor states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Arkansas. Wyoming, the worst performer, with a whopping population 600,000 doesn't present a good statistical representation. You'd get a much better fit with an n-th order polynomial but that wouldn't serve the purpose you want it to. Could go on all day about how bad this is to make a real point. What's the statistical noise year-to-year? Even leaving out correlation does not causality make.

Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, and Louisiana can be explained by Jackson, Memphis, Little Rock, St. Louis and New Orleans and its surrounding parish. Namely...violent, black assed niggers.

If you comb this data for suicides and then factor in the "brown factor", this graph gets twisted in a way that would make your average Mother Jones reading faggot go into paralysis.

I was going to make the point Sua Sponte made..that is a shitty line to draw given the absolute variability of the data points

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I was going to make the point Sua Sponte made..that is a shitty line to draw given the absolute variability of the data points

Yeah, that would be almost impossible to graph with incomplete data.

What I'd like to know is why the NRA and Congress has fought so hard the last 15 years or so to defund scientific studies into the causes of gun violence?

Maybe funding the CDC for studies on gun violence would be better spent study proper brisket cooking?

Low IQ contributes greatly to violent crime. The race and IQ correlations scare people to death.

Kazuya Mishima wrote:Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, and Louisiana can be explained by Jackson, Memphis, Little Rock, St. Louis and New Orleans and its surrounding parish. Namely...violent, black assed niggers.

If you comb this data for suicides and then factor in the "brown factor", this graph gets twisted in a way that would make your average Mother Jones reading faggot go into paralysis.

It's also the answer to the Libs oft screamed " Why does Europe not have the gun deaths we do!"

Because their blacks, while being treated better by and large were still made to assimilate and act human. Further back but baring fruit today, they did not have the same amount of selective breeding of blacks we did until 1865. No one bred them for brains or reasoning here, you breed them for work capacity and you don't want the smart ones propagating if your a slave owner, smart people revolt and can do so effectively.

Just google the IQ stats, Asains, then Whites, American Blacks only beat Aboriginal Australians. That does not mean all blacks are stupid, but on average, they are fucking dim as shit and dim people do not tend to look far ahead of their actions.

But talk about this and you are a racist, even though we all know that we have a bigger Nigger and growing Cholo problem than we do a gun problem. When you look at those killed by bullet not counting suicide ( which is your right if you are tired of shit) you end up with a lot of dead felons killed by other felons, then cops and civilians.
Only 33,636 are killed by a bullet in the USA every year, about 10 per 100,000,000 people. That's counting suicides and accidents. So take out suicides and accidents and you have? More shitbags than decent folks getting killed. Gun laws wont help that unless all gun laws went away and every man carried as commonly as carried cell phones. Yeah you would have some arguments become shootings, yes sometimes innocents will get struck in a SD shooting but you'd see the number of decent humans killed with a bullet by another's hands go way down. look what CCWs have done.

DARTH wrote:

Kazuya Mishima wrote:Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, and Louisiana can be explained by Jackson, Memphis, Little Rock, St. Louis and New Orleans and its surrounding parish. Namely...violent, black assed niggers.

If you comb this data for suicides and then factor in the "brown factor", this graph gets twisted in a way that would make your average Mother Jones reading faggot go into paralysis.

It's also the answer to the Libs oft screamed " Why does Europe not have the gun deaths we do!"

Because their blacks, while being treated better by and large were still made to assimilate and act human. Further back but baring fruit today, they did not have the same amount of selective breeding of blacks we did until 1865. No one bred them for brains or reasoning here, you breed them for work capacity and you don't want the smart ones propagating if your a slave owner, smart people revolt and can do so effectively.

Just google the IQ stats, Asains, then Whites, American Blacks only beat Aboriginal Australians. That does not mean all blacks are stupid, but on average, they are fucking dim as shit and dim people do not tend to look far ahead of their actions.

But talk about this and you are a racist, even though we all know that we have a bigger Nigger and growing Cholo problem than we do a gun problem. When you look at those killed by bullet not counting suicide ( which is your right if you are tired of shit) you end up with a lot of dead felons killed by other felons, then cops and civilians.
Only 33,636 are killed by a bullet in the USA every year, about 10 per 100,000,000 people. That's counting suicides and accidents. So take out suicides and accidents and you have? More shitbags than decent folks getting killed. Gun laws wont help that unless all gun laws went away and every man carried as commonly as carried cell phones. Yeah you would have some arguments become shootings, yes sometimes innocents will get struck in a SD shooting but you'd see the number of decent humans killed with a bullet by another's hands go way down. look what CCWs have done.

Add Australia and Canada to your list of 'low gun crime' nations.

Funny how libs love to smugly toss out cognitive dissonance when it comes to gun ownership advocates, but refuse to redirect that same principle on their own arguments that you state above. More of those 'inconvenient narratives'. Another odd/funny thought: the overwhelming majority of people who are stomping their feet for tougher gun control have no experience with said firearms, let alone dangerous situations in RL involving firearms. And don't even go there with a white lib when it comes to black on black violent street crime with a white lib.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

DARTH wrote:

Kazuya Mishima wrote:Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, and Louisiana can be explained by Jackson, Memphis, Little Rock, St. Louis and New Orleans and its surrounding parish. Namely...violent, black assed niggers.

If you comb this data for suicides and then factor in the "brown factor", this graph gets twisted in a way that would make your average Mother Jones reading faggot go into paralysis.

It's also the answer to the Libs oft screamed " Why does Europe not have the gun deaths we do!"

Because their blacks, while being treated better by and large were still made to assimilate and act human. Further back but baring fruit today, they did not have the same amount of selective breeding of blacks we did until 1865. No one bred them for brains or reasoning here, you breed them for work capacity and you don't want the smart ones propagating if your a slave owner, smart people revolt and can do so effectively.

Just google the IQ stats, Asains, then Whites, American Blacks only beat Aboriginal Australians. That does not mean all blacks are stupid, but on average, they are fucking dim as shit and dim people do not tend to look far ahead of their actions.

But talk about this and you are a racist, even though we all know that we have a bigger Nigger and growing Cholo problem than we do a gun problem. When you look at those killed by bullet not counting suicide ( which is your right if you are tired of shit) you end up with a lot of dead felons killed by other felons, then cops and civilians.
Only 33,636 are killed by a bullet in the USA every year, about 10 per 100,000,000 people. That's counting suicides and accidents. So take out suicides and accidents and you have? More shitbags than decent folks getting killed. Gun laws wont help that unless all gun laws went away and every man carried as commonly as carried cell phones. Yeah you would have some arguments become shootings, yes sometimes innocents will get struck in a SD shooting but you'd see the number of decent humans killed with a bullet by another's hands go way down. look what CCWs have done.

Add Australia and Canada to your list of 'low gun crime' nations.

Funny how libs love to smugly toss out cognitive dissonance when it comes to gun ownership advocates, but refuse to redirect that same principle on their own arguments that you state above. More of those 'inconvenient narratives'. Another odd/funny thought: the overwhelming majority of people who are stomping their feet for tougher gun control have no experience with said firearms, let alone dangerous situations in RL involving firearms. And don't even go there with a white lib when it comes to black on black violent street crime with a white lib.

Another odd/funny thought: the overwhelming majority of people who are stomping their feet for tougher gun control have no experience with said firearms

That's an odd image. Kinda like saying you can't fight to defund Planned Parenthood if you don't have uterus of your own or we're gonna just have to leave climate science to the scientists.... oh, wait.

Awesome:

An amendment from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) to prevent individuals on the terror watch list from purchasing firearms failed on a 45 to 54 vote.

Sen. Jeff Flake received $321,709 in expenditures from NRA to vote against it. This is the same guy that, along with john McCain, wants to get paid patriotism out of the Pentagon budget.

Yes I Have Balls wrote:Awesome:

An amendment from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) to prevent individuals on the terror watch list from purchasing firearms failed on a 45 to 54 vote.

Sen. Jeff Flake received $321,709 in expenditures from NRA to vote against it. This is the same guy that, along with john McCain, wants to get paid patriotism out of the Pentagon budget.

This is really very simple. We are in the middle of a culture war between libs and libertarian/conservatives over many issues including gun rights. The Feinstein thing sounds perfectly reasonable until you realize that the no fly list isn't that accurate and the people in control of the list consider people on the right side of the spectrum to be enemy #1.

I could compromise on a variety of gun related issues but I'm 100% certain that the Obama, Cuomo, Bloomberg, Clinton, Feinstein types won't be satisfied until we're England or Australia.

So....every compromise is one more step on an endless road to confiscation and capitulation. No more compromise on a single fundamental personal freedom issue to the BushBamas...not one. I wish it were different but it's not. So be it.

Anyone who tells you there is solid empirical evidence for any association between gun ownership and violence (positive or negative) is full of shit. The data are terrible and the estimation is extremely sensitive to modeling choices.

Yes I Have Balls wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

DARTH wrote:

Kazuya Mishima wrote:Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, and Louisiana can be explained by Jackson, Memphis, Little Rock, St. Louis and New Orleans and its surrounding parish. Namely...violent, black assed niggers.

If you comb this data for suicides and then factor in the "brown factor", this graph gets twisted in a way that would make your average Mother Jones reading faggot go into paralysis.

It's also the answer to the Libs oft screamed " Why does Europe not have the gun deaths we do!"

Because their blacks, while being treated better by and large were still made to assimilate and act human. Further back but baring fruit today, they did not have the same amount of selective breeding of blacks we did until 1865. No one bred them for brains or reasoning here, you breed them for work capacity and you don't want the smart ones propagating if your a slave owner, smart people revolt and can do so effectively.

Just google the IQ stats, Asains, then Whites, American Blacks only beat Aboriginal Australians. That does not mean all blacks are stupid, but on average, they are fucking dim as shit and dim people do not tend to look far ahead of their actions.

But talk about this and you are a racist, even though we all know that we have a bigger Nigger and growing Cholo problem than we do a gun problem. When you look at those killed by bullet not counting suicide ( which is your right if you are tired of shit) you end up with a lot of dead felons killed by other felons, then cops and civilians.
Only 33,636 are killed by a bullet in the USA every year, about 10 per 100,000,000 people. That's counting suicides and accidents. So take out suicides and accidents and you have? More shitbags than decent folks getting killed. Gun laws wont help that unless all gun laws went away and every man carried as commonly as carried cell phones. Yeah you would have some arguments become shootings, yes sometimes innocents will get struck in a SD shooting but you'd see the number of decent humans killed with a bullet by another's hands go way down. look what CCWs have done.

Add Australia and Canada to your list of 'low gun crime' nations.

Funny how libs love to smugly toss out cognitive dissonance when it comes to gun ownership advocates, but refuse to redirect that same principle on their own arguments that you state above. More of those 'inconvenient narratives'. Another odd/funny thought: the overwhelming majority of people who are stomping their feet for tougher gun control have no experience with said firearms, let alone dangerous situations in RL involving firearms. And don't even go there with a white lib when it comes to black on black violent street crime with a white lib.

Another odd/funny thought: the overwhelming majority of people who are stomping their feet for tougher gun control have no experience with said firearms

That's an odd image. Kinda like saying you can't fight to defund Planned Parenthood if you don't have uterus of your own or we're gonna just have to leave climate science to the scientists.... oh, wait.

No, it's more akin to saying leave planned parenthood decisions to people who are actual parents. Although, you're barking up the wrong tree on that one with me. Climate Science? Oh wait....there's that esteemed fellow Al Gore who sort of snowballed all that (get it? snowballed?)

Yes I Have Balls wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I was going to make the point Sua Sponte made..that is a shitty line to draw given the absolute variability of the data points

Yeah, that would be almost impossible to graph with incomplete data.

What I'd like to know is why the NRA and Congress has fought so hard the last 15 years or so to defund scientific studies into the causes of gun violence?

Maybe funding the CDC for studies on gun violence would be better spent study proper brisket cooking?

Or the best kind of milk and cookies.

DARTH wrote:

Kazuya Mishima wrote:Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, and Louisiana can be explained by Jackson, Memphis, Little Rock, St. Louis and New Orleans and its surrounding parish. Namely...violent, black assed niggers.

If you comb this data for suicides and then factor in the "brown factor", this graph gets twisted in a way that would make your average Mother Jones reading faggot go into paralysis.

It's also the answer to the Libs oft screamed " Why does Europe not have the gun deaths we do!"

Because their blacks, while being treated better by and large were still made to assimilate and act human. Further back but baring fruit today, they did not have the same amount of selective breeding of blacks we did until 1865. No one bred them for brains or reasoning here, you breed them for work capacity and you don't want the smart ones propagating if your a slave owner, smart people revolt and can do so effectively.

Just google the IQ stats, Asains, then Whites, American Blacks only beat Aboriginal Australians. That does not mean all blacks are stupid, but on average, they are fucking dim as shit and dim people do not tend to look far ahead of their actions.

But talk about this and you are a racist, even though we all know that we have a bigger Nigger and growing Cholo problem than we do a gun problem. When you look at those killed by bullet not counting suicide ( which is your right if you are tired of shit) you end up with a lot of dead felons killed by other felons, then cops and civilians.
Only 33,636 are killed by a bullet in the USA every year, about 10 per 100,000,000 people. That's counting suicides and accidents. So take out suicides and accidents and you have? More shitbags than decent folks getting killed. Gun laws wont help that unless all gun laws went away and every man carried as commonly as carried cell phones. Yeah you would have some arguments become shootings, yes sometimes innocents will get struck in a SD shooting but you'd see the number of decent humans killed with a bullet by another's hands go way down. look what CCWs have done.

Assume you meant 10 per 100,000 or about a basis point of the population every year. That's not a terribly small number in my opinion.

Yes I Have Balls wrote:Awesome:

An amendment from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) to prevent individuals on the terror watch list from purchasing firearms failed on a 45 to 54 vote.

Sen. Jeff Flake received $321,709 in expenditures from NRA to vote against it. This is the same guy that, along with john McCain, wants to get paid patriotism out of the Pentagon budget.

Very simple problem here and it's an apolitical one. There's difference between being on the terror watch list and being a known terrorist. What criteria it takes to get on that list is nebulous at best and the person probably doesn't even know that s/he is. Leftist rag here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/2 ... 17599.html describes it. Easy to become a political tool for somebody's agenda. Likely already is. New McCarthyism.

Frankly, it's not unlike the other side that says we should put people with mental health issues on a no-gun list. Aside from the fact there's no definitive definition of what's mentally ill nor can there be as it's opinion based. "Trained" psychologists predicting violent behavior are egregiously wrong most always in either direction.

Globalist puppets rush to the defense of their infiltration & agitation forces.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/1593/lore ... es-barrett

Yes I Have Balls wrote: What I'd like to know is why the NRA and Congress has fought so hard the last 15 years or so to defund scientific studies into the causes of gun violence?

Maybe funding the CDC for studies on gun violence would be better spent study proper brisket cooking?

I'm not sure why the NRA has so positioned itself but playing devil's advocate I'd guess they see it as too political to get a fair hearing. Like climate science, where good science gets mixed in with very bad, it's all repeated as unassailable truth on one side and complete chicanery on the other. The private sector is not the only place 'scientific research' goes in the direction of the agenda of the funding source. Since social science is way more social than science anyway, one can see the concern. Nothing likely to get resolved there.

There's a parallel area where many very good studies have been done and entirely ignored. Driving while using a cell phone has been shown time and again to be the equivalent of drunk driving, with texting while driving being particularly dangerous. Yet not only is cell phone use in some form or another legal most everywhere, even where it's illegal it's largely ignored. Most openly admit to doing it. I live in an area where the climate allows me to ride near year round and not a week goes by that I don't end up evading some twit dicking with her/his cell phone. What's laughable is how many have some sort of SJW bumper sticker on their car. Save the world but fuck the driver next to me. Up to and including one chick who told me it's my own damn fault for riding one of those things.

Drunk driving still kills on average 28 people per day. That number would be much higher were it not for advances in modern safety engineering and emergency medicine. Injury rates are stunning. It's said that a person drives drunk 80 times before they're caught. Not sure how one comes to that conclusion but let's run with it. Simple resolution-require by law all cars become equipped with breathalyzer interlocks. Make it a felony to tamper with one. Retrofit on old cars. We can even fit speed limiters. And it ain't gonna happen. Not because of arguments over cost or practicalities but because the average car driving, cell phone using voter won't have anything to do with it. "I don't drink and drive, why am I being punished for what those people did." Same thing the law abiding gun owner says. Gun ownership per SCOTUS is a right on top of it. Difference is almost everybody drives and has a cell phone but some don't own guns. Very easy to play the "those gun nuts and their guns" card, us versus them, but not so when I drive the same car and drink the same brand of the person who ran into a school bus.

Like the AIDs epidemic of the 80s, where it was repeatedly pointed out that more good could be done for legions of people at a fraction of the cost by addressing malaria rather than an AIDs vaccine, guns are just a higher profile "cause du jour" that plays well into media events.

Couple of items. 1, the CDC is not prohibited from studying guns, only from advocating gun control. They can collect and publish all the data they wish to.

2. The watch list is not a list of known terrorists. It's a 1.2 million name list of people to watch with weak requirements for getting on the list, no judicial review, no way to see if you are on the list, and no good way to get of it. The government estimates 30% of the names are errors, as well. All it takes is to have same name as sombody on the list, or be the victim of an anonymous "tip", or be a journalist who pissed off a politician (several think this is what happened to them). If even one name in a 100 was actually a terrorist it would be shocking.

Schlegel wrote:Couple of items. 1, the CDC is not prohibited from studying guns, only from advocating gun control. They can collect and publish all the data they wish to.

That's... not true.

The actual text.

None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

Read closer. The guy who wrote this said the law was over-interpreted, and not meant to ban data collection, just advocacy. If they did nothing out of fear, that's a failure of leadership, not of the law.

It is possible for us to conduct firearm-related research within the context of our efforts to address youth violence, domestic violence, sexual violence, and suicide,” CDC spokeswoman Courtney Lenard wrote, “but our resources are very limited.”

In other words, the only ban on gathering data about gunviolence is self-imposed. They don't want to include it unless separately funded rather than included under some other umbrella.

BREAKING NEWS: OMG direct ties to ISIS are now being released as factual.

So much for the workplace violence spin.................

Schlegel wrote:The watch list is not a list of known terrorists. It's a 1.2 million name list of people to watch with weak requirements for getting on the list, no judicial review, no way to see if you are on the list, and no good way to get of it. The government estimates 30% of the names are errors, as well. All it takes is to have same name as sombody on the list, or be the victim of an anonymous "tip", or be a journalist who pissed off a politician (several think this is what happened to them). If even one name in a 100 was actually a terrorist it would be shocking.

So, is that like "Perfect is the enemy of good"? I love that argument.

I heard the killers were Syrian refugees, NRA members and actually survivors of failed abortions 32 years ago. Not completely sure but...

Yes I Have Balls wrote:

Schlegel wrote:The watch list is not a list of known terrorists. It's a 1.2 million name list of people to watch with weak requirements for getting on the list, no judicial review, no way to see if you are on the list, and no good way to get of it. The government estimates 30% of the names are errors, as well. All it takes is to have same name as sombody on the list, or be the victim of an anonymous "tip", or be a journalist who pissed off a politician (several think this is what happened to them). If even one name in a 100 was actually a terrorist it would be shocking.

So, is that like "Perfect is the enemy of good"? I love that argument.

I think it's better stated as "Doing nothing is better than doing the arbitrary." Especially when arbitrary also robs people of their rights. Or "better safe than sorry" doesn't make you safe but may very well leave you sorry.