IGX

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Yes I Have Balls wrote:

odin wrote:Your good guys with guns are getting their asses handed to them by the bad guys with guns. Change of management needed I reckon.

If only there were an armed citizenry allowed to carry with very little restriction around to help the police stop the shooter....oh, wait.

I'm a fairly pro armed populace guy but the best argument I've heard against it was from a black guy who used to carry and says he is afraid anytime he flinches or prints in public he's putting his life in danger. Fact of the matter is, there's a very real chance that even if you are able to do something to disrupt an active shooter or hostile situation, Police are not going think twice about whether you're a civilian. Look armed? look like a potential threat? They'll shoot you like a pesky pitbull on their way through your yard. Frankly, when I carry this is my number 1 concern.

Oddly enough, your concerns are the exact OPPOSITE of what the NRA are trying to convey. Pretty sure Philando Castile makes a pretty air-tight case that most carry laws are for the benefit of white people.

I support the NRA much of the time. Not all of the time. As of the second bit of bait...jog on. there's a not a single right, privilege or facet of public life that benefits all people equally. White people and black people, poor people and rich people, immigrants and residents are not equal....but they should be treated that way under the law. In this case, it will emerge that Castile was brutally denied that equal treatment.

These guys might be getting more of my money.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/07/secon ... lls-for-in

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:I kinda feel that this is the most worrying part of today's story:

I thought the same thing. Killer robots are here and science fiction has come to life. A game changer IMO.

The most annoying thing was Loretta Lynch's exhortation to us lowly citizens not to resort to violence. Normal people would never even consider such a thing and nutcases wouldn't think to listen, yet our masters always feel obligated to do that for some reason.

Yes I Have Balls wrote:Pretty sure Philando Castile makes a pretty air-tight case that most carry laws are for the benefit of white people.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. We don't know shit about what the details of what happened.

Turdacious wrote:

Yes I Have Balls wrote:Pretty sure Philando Castile makes a pretty air-tight case that most carry laws are for the benefit of white people.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. We don't know shit about what the details of what happened.

We will soon though.

Anybody want to storyboard it?

The goddamn robot thing...fuck is right...lets just have automated turre to hooked up to the shot spot systems that open fire in the direction of a shot

Robocop has arrived. Not Detroit.. Texas.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I see more crying that researching gun violence violates the second Amendment.

This isn't true. In fact, the GOP works hard to quash any govt. research into gun violence. You don't do that when the facts are on your side.

If the facts were on the side of gun control, and it was as popular as the gun control lobby claims exactly how do five million NRA members stop it?

Yes I Have Balls wrote:Pretty sure Philando Castile makes a pretty air-tight case that most carry laws are for the benefit of white people.

Progressives have been the main reason that black Americans have a tough time getting carry permits. Progressives treat blacks like children.

The NRA has empowered blacks and urban folks through lawsuits against urban elitists who run cities. The Progressives wailed about blood in the streets. Want to guess if any of those snipers had carry permits?

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I see more crying that researching gun violence violates the second Amendment.

This isn't true. In fact, the GOP works hard to quash any govt. research into gun violence.

A lot of us in flyover country got fed up with the Centers for Disease Control treating firearms at vectors of violence. We got even more tired of social researchers pretending to be doctors.

The DOJ has plenty of money to discuss gun violence. They do. http://www.bjs.gov

Not to ride along with Gene....but if you've ever met a Dr. in Public Health or Epidemiology, you'd knife them in the neck before you'd let them anywhere near research that is apt to be political.

I spent 2 weeks in Iceland with 8 doctoral candidates from the UW....while I generally trust the scientific process, the people I have met doing real science are deeply principled folk BUT these nanny state motherfuckers were some of the sloppiest thinkers I have ever met. Might run a hell of a spreadsheet...had zero fucking sense about much else.

Modern PhDs in non hard sciences are sloppy as fuck.

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Modern PhDs in non hard sciences are sloppy as fuck.

Word.

I asked a couple about the gun issue, every one I talked to said total confiscation was needed to resolve the threat. I asked how many of them would comply with a confiscation order for weed or mushrooms.

I want to science done. Legitimately, we need to do the research. But the level of transparency we need in that process is unlikely to occur.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Not to ride along with Gene....but if you've ever met a Dr. in Public Health or Epidemiology, you'd knife them in the neck before you'd let them anywhere near research that is apt to be political.

I spent 2 weeks in Iceland with 8 doctoral candidates from the UW....while I generally trust the scientific process, the people I have met doing real science are deeply principled folk BUT these nanny state motherfuckers were some of the sloppiest thinkers I have ever met. Might run a hell of a spreadsheet...had zero fucking sense about much else.

College students have no sense about the real world? Get the fuck out of here.

Turdacious wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Not to ride along with Gene....but if you've ever met a Dr. in Public Health or Epidemiology, you'd knife them in the neck before you'd let them anywhere near research that is apt to be political.

I spent 2 weeks in Iceland with 8 doctoral candidates from the UW....while I generally trust the scientific process, the people I have met doing real science are deeply principled folk BUT these nanny state motherfuckers were some of the sloppiest thinkers I have ever met. Might run a hell of a spreadsheet...had zero fucking sense about much else.

College students have no sense about the real world? Get the fuck out of here.

All of these folks are now employed in the research and medical sector. They are indistinguishable from someone with a humanities degree from what I can tell but for their ability to manipulate statistics.

The only one I really clicked with joined the Borg that is Amazon and is mining the fuck out of your data right now to sell you shit you don't want.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Turdacious wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Not to ride along with Gene....but if you've ever met a Dr. in Public Health or Epidemiology, you'd knife them in the neck before you'd let them anywhere near research that is apt to be political.

I spent 2 weeks in Iceland with 8 doctoral candidates from the UW....while I generally trust the scientific process, the people I have met doing real science are deeply principled folk BUT these nanny state motherfuckers were some of the sloppiest thinkers I have ever met. Might run a hell of a spreadsheet...had zero fucking sense about much else.

College students have no sense about the real world? Get the fuck out of here.

All of these folks are now employed in the research and medical sector. They are indistinguishable from someone with a humanities degree from what I can tell but for their ability to manipulate statistics.

The only one I really clicked with joined the Borg that is Amazon and is mining the fuck out of your data right now to sell you shit you don't want.

Bullshit! I WANT all that stuff, just don't NEED any of it.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Turdacious wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Not to ride along with Gene....but if you've ever met a Dr. in Public Health or Epidemiology, you'd knife them in the neck before you'd let them anywhere near research that is apt to be political.

I spent 2 weeks in Iceland with 8 doctoral candidates from the UW....while I generally trust the scientific process, the people I have met doing real science are deeply principled folk BUT these nanny state motherfuckers were some of the sloppiest thinkers I have ever met. Might run a hell of a spreadsheet...had zero fucking sense about much else.

College students have no sense about the real world? Get the fuck out of here.

All of these folks are now employed in the research and medical sector. They are indistinguishable from someone with a humanities degree from what I can tell but for their ability to manipulate statistics.

The only one I really clicked with joined the Borg that is Amazon and is mining the fuck out of your data right now to sell you shit you don't want.

I can't really disagree with you (you're nearer the pointy end of the budgetary spear than they are), but in their defense, their job is pretty much impossible-- I'm not sure how good PH and Epidemiology stats in a medical environment with endemic cross-subsidization (by government mandate) and where the government constantly gives itself a discount and demands a pat on the back can possibly be.

Yes I Have Balls wrote:Pretty sure Philando Castile makes a pretty air-tight case that most carry laws are for the benefit of white people.

Pretty sure Philando Castile makes a pretty air-tight case that Facebook live streams don't stop the bleeding.

Turdacious wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Turdacious wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Not to ride along with Gene....but if you've ever met a Dr. in Public Health or Epidemiology, you'd knife them in the neck before you'd let them anywhere near research that is apt to be political.

I spent 2 weeks in Iceland with 8 doctoral candidates from the UW....while I generally trust the scientific process, the people I have met doing real science are deeply principled folk BUT these nanny state motherfuckers were some of the sloppiest thinkers I have ever met. Might run a hell of a spreadsheet...had zero fucking sense about much else.

College students have no sense about the real world? Get the fuck out of here.

All of these folks are now employed in the research and medical sector. They are indistinguishable from someone with a humanities degree from what I can tell but for their ability to manipulate statistics.

The only one I really clicked with joined the Borg that is Amazon and is mining the fuck out of your data right now to sell you shit you don't want.

I can't really disagree with you (you're nearer the pointy end of the budgetary spear than they are), but in their defense, their job is pretty much impossible-- I'm not sure how good PH and Epidemiology stats in a medical environment with endemic cross-subsidization (by government mandate) and where the government constantly gives itself a discount and demands a pat on the back can possibly be.

You're not wrong.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:The statistics are there, Spells. Easy facts and numbers available on gun violence through the Justice department.

They are. Gun nuts like to use absolute numbers instead of per capita, because it tells a more convenient misleading story.

The real fear is the research will demonstrate how black on black shooting dominate the whole genre of crime.

You think that's why the GOP blocks research? I doubt it.

One of the more interesting things to come out of all this is how the same people who think the black community needs to speak up against their own criminally violent members and put an end to "stop snitching" feel EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE about police officers. And while they are really comfortable characterizing the small minority of blacks who are violent criminals as representative of the whole, they can't stand seeing that done if the group switches to cops.

Excuse the long list please. No guarantees that I got it perfect.
Some interesting Chicago & national statisticals from Heather MacDonald of the Manhattan Institute. references here here and here
• Chicago shootings up 53% from May 2015 to May 2016
• Chicago shootings up 86% compared to the same period in 2014
• Blacks & whites each make up approx 32% of Chicago's populace
---Blacks experienced 72% of investigative stops while whites were only 9%
---Non fatal known shooting suspects: Blacks 79% vs. Whites 1%
---Known robbery suspects: Blacks 85% vs. Whites 2.5%
---Known murder suspects: Blacks 77% vs. Whites 5%
• 40% of young white males reported being subject to investigative stops vs. 70% for young black males. Statistically whites are over represented.
• Chicago police are responsible for 1.6% of fatal shootings in the city
• Nationally police are responsible for 12% of white & hispanic homicide shooting deaths vs. 4% for blacks.
• In 2015 known murder suspects were 80% black vs. 0.9% white
• In NYC black & hispanic officers are 3.3 times more likely to use their guns at shooting scenes than white officers
• Crime is up as much as 90% in cities with large black populations
• Blacks are 13% of the population but have a homicide rate 6 times higher than the combined rate of whites and hispanics
• Blacks commit homicides at a rate 8 times higher than whites and hispanics combined
• Black males make up 40% of all cop killers even though they just make up 6% of the population
• Police officers are 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is likely to be killed by the police.
• There is a 17% increase in homicides across America's 56 largest cities.

My conclusion: America, and blacks in particular, has a police problem that pales in comparison to its black problem when it comes to shootings and homicides. Police have to cope with a huge black violence problem. We also have a white liberal guilt problem that creates a false and dangerous narrative (any major reporting on the 2 black cops that seriously injured an unarmed white man and killed his autistic passenger son?). That narrative and its propagator in chief bear some responsibility for the death and mayhem in Dallas.

DrDonkeyLove wrote:
Police have to cope with a huge black violence problem. We also have a white liberal guilt problem that creates a false and dangerous narrative ...propagator in chief bear some responsibility for the death and mayhem in Dallas.

More inconvenient truths. No question. And while it's been germinating for decades, now, social media and utterly irresponsible actions by politicians to placate equally irresponsible media are taking its toll. Amazing how so many people like to imagine walking a mile in one pair of shoes, but never the other pair.

My simple mind boils down Dr. Donk's post to this:

Black neighborhoods are disproportionately high-crime. Police disproportionately patrol high-crime neighborhoods, and are under pressure to reduce crime & violence. This leads to more contacts, conflicts, arrests, and more use of force. All the way to lethal force.

I'm all for reducing pretextual traffic stops and for encouraging more friendly police-citizen contacts. (Not just to reduce violence but because it's the right thing to do.) But I think the results would be slow to come. IMO, police body cams should make both sides play nicer. Also, it would be interesting to see one of the states adopt a Portugal drug decriminalization law...see how that experiment works in a state with a big inner city.

PS - One of the sites I read yesterday: in Chicago the homicide clearance rate is less than 20%.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

DrDonkeyLove wrote:
Police have to cope with a huge black violence problem. We also have a white liberal guilt problem that creates a false and dangerous narrative ...propagator in chief bear some responsibility for the death and mayhem in Dallas.

More inconvenient truths. No question. And while it's been germinating for decades, now, social media and utterly irresponsible actions by politicians to placate equally irresponsible media are taking its toll. Amazing how so many people like to imagine walking a mile in one pair of shoes, but never the other pair.

Lie-Bogatyr, you were NYPD when a "stop & frisk" type program was used, right? IIRC, you thought it was effective in disarming criminal types.

How did the overall population receive that approach?

DrDonkeyLove wrote:My conclusion: America, and blacks in particular, has a police problem that pales in comparison to its black problem when it comes to shootings and homicides. Police have to cope with a huge black violence problem. We also have a white liberal guilt problem that creates a false and dangerous narrative (any major reporting on the 2 black cops that seriously injured an unarmed white man and killed his autistic passenger son?). That narrative and its propagator in chief bear some responsibility for the death and mayhem in Dallas.

Maybe part of the problem is that violent crime is less a part of a middle class reality than it used to be-- focusing on broken windows will have less impact in neighborhoods with fewer broken windows. It's probably harder to understand the reality of Shitsville from Caucasian Acres.

So: Yes, the great [Chicago] Crime Decline is a fickle thing. The North Side saw huge decreases (in Rogers Park, it was over 80%) pretty much everywhere; the few areas that are lighter green were the safest in the city to begin with. The parts of the South and West Sides closest to downtown – Bronzeville, the West Loop, Pilsen, etc. – got a lot safer. But most of the rest actually got worse, including some neighborhoods that were already among the most dangerous in the city, like Englewood and Garfield Park.

This is a complicated state of affairs, and probably goes at least part of the way to explaining why, in the face of a 50% decrease in homicides citywide over the last two decades, many people persist in believing that the opposite is true: because in their neighborhoods, it is.

So: Next time you hear someone talking about “record violence” in the city, tell them that actually, murders are down almost 50% from twenty years ago. And then tell them that what’s really alarming is murder inequality.

https://danielkayhertz.com/2013/08/05/w ... s-come-up/

johno wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

DrDonkeyLove wrote:
Police have to cope with a huge black violence problem. We also have a white liberal guilt problem that creates a false and dangerous narrative ...propagator in chief bear some responsibility for the death and mayhem in Dallas.

More inconvenient truths. No question. And while it's been germinating for decades, now, social media and utterly irresponsible actions by politicians to placate equally irresponsible media are taking its toll. Amazing how so many people like to imagine walking a mile in one pair of shoes, but never the other pair.

Lie-Bogatyr, you were NYPD when a "stop & frisk" type program was used, right? IIRC, you thought it was effective in disarming criminal types.

How did the overall population receive that approach?

There's a super mixed data on what it if anything it achieved. Strong opinions and intuition by all sides. But it was flatly unconstitutional nonetheless.

http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/cases/show ... ial&id=317

http://ccrjustice.org/home/press-center ... -practices