Mass Shootings in America

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nafod
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Mass Shootings in America

Post by nafod »

Turdacious wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:42 pm
nafod wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:46 pm
Gene wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:00 pm I'm going to ask you, Bram, what Nafod refuses to answer. There are 15,000,000 such rifles in private hands. How do you intend to get them out of circulation?
The key is illegality and/or liability.

Require insurance to own one, and you’ll see them filling landfills.
Insurance doesn’t cover criminal activity.
It can cover intentional acts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... liability/

In the case of guns, insurance would work similarly: If a gun you own were used in a crime (by you or someone else), you would be liable for the cost of that crime. The liability could be tens of thousands of dollars in the case of a robbery or tens of millions of dollars in the case of a mass shooting…

…Insurance companies have objected that they typically don’t make liability payments for intentional acts. Making a payment for an illegal shooting would be like paying out a claim in the case of arson, as opposed to an accidental fire, they argue. But this is a legal concern only if the insurance compensates a bad actor. It is routine to have insurance that covers intentional bad acts.




This article also discusses how to let our tort system weigh in.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... aw/661283/

The argument for using the tort system comes down to money. Americans lose an estimated $280 billion annually in earnings and productivity because of gun violence—and 1,131,105 years of potential life lost from gun-related deaths in 2020 alone—not to mention the hospital bills and other care-related costs incurred by those injured or disabled, including rehabilitation, medication, trauma-related therapy, testing, and home aid not otherwise covered by insurance.

As things stand, the costs of gun violence fall unrelentingly on its victims and everyday taxpayers and consumers, many of whom may not themselves own guns. Economists refer to such side effects as negative externalities—the indirect costs of one group’s activity that are disproportionately borne by an unrelated third party, be it private individuals or society as a whole.
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Post by Turdacious »

Sounds nice until you go into the details they don’t mention.
1. Who enforces the insurance mandate and how? Th Obamacare insurance mandate failed and we can’t even enforce the existing red flag laws.
2. Ignores fact that we don’t have a supply shortage of guns and they are a durable good (unlike a cigarette for example)
3. Placing the burden of the cost of gun violence (which would include things like robbery) on legal gun owners when most perpetrators of gun violence are using illegally owned guns is an incredibly regressive tax which would primarily impact people in high crime neighborhoods who have legit self defense needs.
4. Assumes that suicides by gun wouldn’t happen anyway
5. Implies that a person who’s gun is stolen has to keep paying insurance, and likely a much higher rate, in perpetuity (since stolen guns are seldom recovered)
6. Most gun crime is not tied to a specific weapon.
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Turdacious wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:41 pm Sounds nice until you go into the details…
Sigh…you give up too easily
’No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
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Post by Turdacious »

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

Not even close.

Public policy is hard, and is worth doing right.
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Post by nafod »

The Supreme Court has cleared the way for individual states to pass laws that allow citizens to sue gun owners and collect bounties, ala SB.8 in Texas. I expect we will see some of that at some point. Pandora’s box opened.
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Alls I know is, when shit hits ... and I mean REALLY hits, I'm gonna be the benevolent war-lord of my sleepy little farm town. Might 100% makes right. Believe otherwise and wallow in naiveite.
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Until someone swats you.

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I'd know of any Popo activity a great deal in advance. We're a one bridge town full of busy bodies. The RayGun signal would hit the sky in time for me to not be here for a proper SWATing.
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Post by Gene »

nafod wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:46 pm
Gene wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:00 pm I'm going to ask you, Bram, what Nafod refuses to answer. There are 15,000,000 such rifles in private hands. How do you intend to get them out of circulation?
The key is illegality and/or liability.

Require insurance to own one, and you’ll see them filling landfills.
Landfills? They'll end up in flea markets or in the trunks of cars. Easy Eddy can get them off your back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duW5WhxKjQY

From responsible hands to, well, criminals.

Besides....

Twelve percent of cars are not insured, Nafod. In Mississippi it's roughly one in three.

https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/fact ... -motorists


What are you going to do? Make semi-automatic assault weapons double illegal?
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Post by j-cubed »

nafod wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:46 pm
Gene wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:00 pm I'm going to ask you, Bram, what Nafod refuses to answer. There are 15,000,000 such rifles in private hands. How do you intend to get them out of circulation?
The key is illegality and/or liability.

Require insurance to own one, and you’ll see them filling landfills.
Even if you required insurance, and all the gun owners were forced to buy it, it wouldn't move the needle. The insurance would be very cheap, based on actuarial tables. The administration fee would be more than the actual insurance cost, just bundle it in my home policy.

Remember, more people die from auto-erotic asphyxiation than from being shot by an AR-15. The media convinces every one the weapons are a problem. Moms Demand Action founder Shannon R Watts admits in her book only a small percentage of firearm deaths are from "assault weapons", but then she goes on to say she would still ban them.

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Post by nafod »

j-cubed wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:30 pm Remember, more people die from auto-erotic asphyxiation than from being shot by an AR-15.
When there is a mass shooting, everyone at the event is a terror victim, not just the dead folks. When you auto-erotic asphyxiate, only the guy in the stall next to you is traumatized. Maybe.
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Post by j-cubed »

nafod wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:45 pm
j-cubed wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:30 pm Remember, more people die from auto-erotic asphyxiation than from being shot by an AR-15.
When there is a mass shooting, everyone at the event is a terror victim, not just the dead folks. When you auto-erotic asphyxiate, only the guy in the stall next to you is traumatized. Maybe.
Is that just a red herring? Because the point is still valid, if insurance rates were based on actual actuarial data and not politicized, the cost would be relatively small.
It's all the people that don't bother to learn actual data that jump onto the bandwagon fallacy that we have to ban "assault weapons" them because, "We have to do SOMETHING". Even if that something would not actually save many lives.

If you rubbed the genie bottle, and your first wish was that all "assault weapons" were to disappear, it would barely move the needle of firearm deaths. But hey, pass some new arbitrary, capricious, stupid law, as long as it makes people feel safer. The saying "Safety perceived is safety achieved" really does apply.

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Is that just a red herring? Because the point is still valid, if insurance rates were based on actual actuarial data and not politicized, the cost would be relatively small.
The problem gun control supporters are trying to address (40,000 firearms death per year) is not relatively small, especially because they are quite preventable. I saw some imbeciles pointing at Abe's assassination like, "LOL gun laws don't work" and ignoring that Japan had 9 firearms deaths that year. Vs. tens of thousands.
If you rubbed the genie bottle, and your first wish was that all "assault weapons" were to disappear, it would barely move the needle of firearm deaths.
I think Sandy Hook, Uvalde, etc. etc. etc. where you see a bunch of American children executed is something worth preventing even if, in the long run, we all die anyway.

A common criticism of legislation people don't like is, "This legislation will not entirely solve the problem all by itself," which is not how laws work. If you can make incremental improvements, that is a good thing.
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Post by nafod »

j-cubed wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:48 pm
nafod wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:45 pm
j-cubed wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 4:30 pm Remember, more people die from auto-erotic asphyxiation than from being shot by an AR-15.
When there is a mass shooting, everyone at the event is a terror victim, not just the dead folks. When you auto-erotic asphyxiate, only the guy in the stall next to you is traumatized. Maybe.
Is that just a red herring? Because the point is still valid, if insurance rates were based on actual actuarial data and not politicized, the cost would be relatively small.
It's all the people that don't bother to learn actual data that jump onto the bandwagon fallacy that we have to ban "assault weapons" them because, "We have to do SOMETHING". Even if that something would not actually save many lives.

If you rubbed the genie bottle, and your first wish was that all "assault weapons" were to disappear, it would barely move the needle of firearm deaths. But hey, pass some new arbitrary, capricious, stupid law, as long as it makes people feel safer. The saying "Safety perceived is safety achieved" really does apply.
Every time I read from a gun proponent that there is nothing to be done, just lie back and count the bodies…

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prev ... 1819580358
LAS VEGAS—In the hours following a violent rampage in Las Vegas in which a lone attacker killed more than 50 individuals and seriously injured 400 others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Monday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place.
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Post by Gene »

Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:01 pm
I think Sandy Hook, Uvalde, etc. etc. etc. where you see a bunch of American children executed is something worth preventing even if, in the long run, we all die anyway.
Were you aware that Highland Park Illinois instituted an "assault weapon" ban in 2013? The shooter who killed six people abused a legally purchased "featureless" rifle.

So, that ban on "assault weapons" save any lives? Guess not.
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:01 pmA common criticism of legislation people don't like is, "This legislation will not entirely solve the problem all by itself," which is not how laws work. If you can make incremental improvements, that is a good thing.
A while back you said that I was indulging in "Slippery slope" thinking when I talked about assault weapon bans leading to handgun bans.

Now you're endorsing Gradual Incrementalism. Thank you for your honesty, Gramps.

Edit - We'll see if the enhanced background checks for people 18 to 21 get anything done. To me it's another gesture.

Rather see motion on legalizing weed, which would cut into Opiod and narcotics sales. This would take some of the profits out of the drug trade, which over time would reduce violence. Killing people would be worth less bother and risk.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6667507/
Last edited by Gene on Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gene »

j-cubed wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:48 pm If you rubbed the genie bottle, and your first wish was that all "assault weapons" were to disappear, it would barely move the needle of firearm deaths. But hey, pass some new arbitrary, capricious, stupid law, as long as it makes people feel safer. The saying "Safety perceived is safety achieved" really does apply.
The guy who put "assault weapons" on the map was Josh Sugarmann.

"“The public’s confusion over fully-automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons — anything that looks like a machine gun is presumed to be a machine gun — can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons.”

I still remember when the Feinstein ban was signed into law. A day or two later gun control enthusiasts were talking of "let's do the same with handguns!"


Chicago has been a kind of laboratory of the use of gun laws. Chicago has an assault weapon ban.

https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/c ... -0-2644288


Hasn't done much for Chicago. They seem to do just fine bumping each other off with handguns.

https://heyjackass.com/
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Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Gene wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:54 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:01 pm
I think Sandy Hook, Uvalde, etc. etc. etc. where you see a bunch of American children executed is something worth preventing even if, in the long run, we all die anyway.
Were you aware that Highland Park Illinois instituted an "assault weapon" ban in 2013? The shooter who killed six people abused a legally purchased "featureless" rifle.

So, that ban on "assault weapons" save any lives? Guess not.
One of the irritating things about interacting with you on these subjects if you take the absolute dumbest strawman possible and ascribe it to people who have already said something different in the same thread.

Highland Park is a tiny suburb with no gun stores. An AWB there is meaningless, and the legislation it would take would obviously be federal.
A while back you said that I was indulging in "Slippery slope" thinking when I talked about assault weapon bans leading to handgun bans.

Now you're endorsing Gradual Incrementalism. Thank you for your honesty, Gramps.
And yet, you're capable of remembering and willfully misunderstanding earlier arguments.

You pass laws that can improve upon the status quo, even if each individual one isn't solving the entire issue. You stop at passing the laws that go to far.
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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:17 pm One of the irritating things about interacting with you on these subjects if you take the absolute dumbest strawman possible and ascribe it to people who have already said something different in the same thread.

Highland Park is a tiny suburb with no gun stores. An AWB there is meaningless, and the legislation it would take would obviously be federal.
On the contrary, the ban is meaningful as long as someone buys from an FFL. A Federal Firearms Licensee must comply with State and Local laws too. The "where" is shown on the customer's government ID. In Illinois this would be their DL and FOID.

If a firearm is banned where they identify as their legal address, they are not allowed to buy it. So your observation about "ban not mattering" is not true, Gramps. If you live in those places, no AR15/AK47/whatever for you to legally buy.

I've seen residents from out of State, like New York, try to buy "assault weapons" around here. They're politely shown the door of the store. FFLs must obey the laws where the customer lives, not where they purchase the firearm.

Published here are the laws that govern sales to persons living in different parts of Illinois. Please go to page 199, that shows Highland Park Ill "assault weapon ban". FFLs who sell proscribed firearms to those people are law breakers.

https://www.atf.gov/file/133796/download

The BATF&E publishes this for the benefit of Dealers so that they can comply with the many laws of Illinois.


Now that Biden has signed the Bipartisan Safe Communities act, Straw Purchasing is a special crime. I guess a private sale is still OK, but if they bring it to Highland Ill, they're in trouble.

https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media ... _pager.pdf

Sounds like we don't need that Federal ban, Gramps.
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:17 pm
A while back you said that I was indulging in "Slippery slope" thinking when I talked about assault weapon bans leading to handgun bans.

Now you're endorsing Gradual Incrementalism. Thank you for your honesty, Gramps.
And yet, you're capable of remembering and willfully misunderstanding earlier arguments.

You pass laws that can improve upon the status quo, even if each individual one isn't solving the entire issue. You stop at passing the laws that go to far.
I remember clearly what you wrote to me. I complained that banning this would leading to banning something else. I was talking about banning "assault weapons" and then we could be banning handguns. I said this based upon what the gun control lobby tried to do in 1994 after the Feinstein ban passed I also remembered the NJ State legislature reducing the magazine count..... again, and again..

You gave some flippant answer about "slippery slope". I thought that was annoying.
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:17 pmYou pass laws that can improve upon the status quo, even if each individual one isn't solving the entire issue. You stop at passing the laws that go to far.
We can agree on this point.... though we may not agree on who makes that decision, Gramps.
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Gene wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:04 pm Chicago has been a kind of laboratory of the use of gun laws.
Sigh...
That's like having having a small town downwind from a smelting plant outlawing pollution.
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Gene wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:53 pm
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:17 pm One of the irritating things about interacting with you on these subjects if you take the absolute dumbest strawman possible and ascribe it to people who have already said something different in the same thread.

Highland Park is a tiny suburb with no gun stores. An AWB there is meaningless, and the legislation it would take would obviously be federal.
On the contrary, the ban is meaningful as long as someone buys from an FFL. A Federal Firearms Licensee must comply with State and Local laws too. The "where" is shown on the customer's government ID. In Illinois this would be their DL and FOID.

If a firearm is banned where they identify as their legal address, they are not allowed to buy it. So your observation about "ban not mattering" is not true, Gramps. If you live in those places, no AR15/AK47/whatever for you to legally buy.

I've seen residents from out of State, like New York, try to buy "assault weapons" around here. They're politely shown the door of the store. FFLs must obey the laws where the customer lives, not where they purchase the firearm.

Published here are the laws that govern sales to persons living in different parts of Illinois. Please go to page 199, that shows Highland Park Ill "assault weapon ban". FFLs who sell proscribed firearms to those people are law breakers.

https://www.atf.gov/file/133796/download

The BATF&E publishes this for the benefit of Dealers so that they can comply with the many laws of Illinois.


Now that Biden has signed the Bipartisan Safe Communities act, Straw Purchasing is a special crime. I guess a private sale is still OK, but if they bring it to Highland Ill, they're in trouble.

https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media ... _pager.pdf

Sounds like we don't need that Federal ban, Gramps.
Shooter didn't live in Highland Park, he lived in Highwood. Adjacent town, no ban, no borders checking vehicles for weapons. You are awarded zero points.
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Post by Turdacious »

Gene wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:54 pm
Twelve percent of cars are not insured, Nafod. In Mississippi it's roughly one in three.

https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/fact ... -motorists
It’s not numbers of cars, it’s numbers of drivers involved in reported accidents.
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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:43 amShooter didn't live in Highland Park, he lived in Highwood. Adjacent town, no ban, no borders checking vehicles for weapons. You are awarded zero points.
What Crimo used in Highland was legal. He used a "high powered weapon" not one of those baby killing semi-automatic assault weapons.

I'll claim my point, thank you.
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:43 amYou are awarded zero points.
We both try hard to be logical but our fundamental assumptions about the world and life are so divergent as to be two separate cultures.
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Turdacious wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:35 am
Gene wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:54 pm
Twelve percent of cars are not insured, Nafod. In Mississippi it's roughly one in three.

https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/fact ... -motorists
It’s not numbers of cars, it’s numbers of drivers involved in reported accidents.
Nafod wants to make all gun owners responsible for the bad behavior of a small number of people, who ought to be held to account for their own lapses.

I agree with you - assuming 600,000 gun shot wounds and deaths each year out of 100,000,000 gun owners is a failure rate of 0.6 percent per year. We need to impose a Poll Tax on the second amendment on 99.4 percent of gun owners because of 0.6 percent misbehaved?

This is rational public policy? Sounds more like a twisted attempt at disarming the masses, probably to better squeeze them for profits from shitty business ventures.

The real kick in the junk is roughly half of all "gun death" in the US are suicide, but.... nine States in the US permit Physician assisted suicide. I guess blowing out your brains is bad but letting Dr. Kevorkian take you out is OK?
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Post by Gene »

nafod wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:51 am
Gene wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:04 pm Chicago has been a kind of laboratory of the use of gun laws.
Sigh...
That's like having having a small town downwind from a smelting plant outlawing pollution.
Interesting analogy. Riddle me this, Gramps. How come Chicago still has more murder than Houston Tx? Similar sized cities. You have tougher gun laws than them.

Houston had 187 deaths by the end of May 2022

https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime ... 8e3f04faf6

Chicago had 239 deaths by the end of May 2022

https://news.wttw.com/2022/06/01/despit ... -down-2022

Should be the other way around, yes? The steel mill in Texas is a lot stinkier than the one in Illinois or the adjoining States. Why does Chicago have more gun death than Houston? There are reasons, what are they?

I apologize that I couldn't find more about Houston. Hey Jackass says that as of July 21 2022 that you all have had 339 "gun deaths'.

I considered most of them casualties of the War on Drugs. Very few people support me on that point.

Fifty years of failed policy on drugs. Failed with liquor a century ago in Chicago.

Now we're going to implement this same failed policy with guns?

There is this thing called "The Elusive Obvious". Chicago's gangs are nourished by illicit drug trade. For fifty years we tried to control drugs by banning them. A quick google search of "chicago gangs drug trade" shows a lot of criminal cases.

Here is the DEA's take... a bit old.

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files ... sified.pdf

After fifty years.... people are killing each other. We need "gun safety"?


I don't enjoy bugging you, Gramps, though to me you are a bit over concerned with the Corporate Media. I think that the US Corporate Media is manufacturing a consensus about guns and gun ownership. To me it's a bunch of dirty tricks.... aimed at a power grab.

I rarely watch the News. Mostly it's "What do they want to believe now?"

We could have resolved this decades ago but some people wanted prohibition. They said so in 1976.

""We'll take one step at a time, and the first is necessarily -given the political realities - very modest. We'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and then again to strengthen the next law and again and again. Our ultimate goal, total control of hand guns, is going to take time. The first problem is to slow down production and sales. Next is to get registration. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and ammunition (with a few exceptions) totally illegal."' Pete Shields, founder of HCI, 1976.

HCI and its sister outfits have not deviated from this plan. Most supporters offer me half a loaf, as versus what? A prison cell? The Waco Mt Carmel treatment? Burning at the stake?


I live in the wilds of Appalachia. Why do I need gun laws that might work in downtown Chicago?


Your analogy of "pollution" is interesting. Who is polluting the streets of Chicago with drugs, drugs that fuel the drug gangs and that fuel the violence?
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Post by j-cubed »

Grandpa's Spells wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:01 pm
The problem gun control supporters are trying to address (40,000 firearms death per year) is not relatively small, especially because they are quite preventable. I saw some imbeciles pointing at Abe's assassination like, "LOL gun laws don't work" and ignoring that Japan had 9 firearms deaths that year. Vs. tens of thousands.
It's simply their culture. If Japan had a ton of guns, they still would have a low firearm death homicide rate. The USA manages to have a higher non-firearm homicide rate than a ton of other countries. We're just more violent, how can we address that core aspect of the issue?
However, since you mentioned 40,000 firearm deaths per year, and 60% are suicide, somehow Japan manages to have a higher suicide rate than the USA, despite not having any guns. So fewer murders, but more suicides, and no guns.
I think Sandy Hook, Uvalde, etc. etc. etc. where you see a bunch of American children executed is something worth preventing even if, in the long run, we all die anyway.

A common criticism of legislation people don't like is, "This legislation will not entirely solve the problem all by itself," which is not how laws work. If you can make incremental improvements, that is a good thing.
No one wants active shootings or mass shootings to continue. But arbitrary or capricious laws which really can't be enforced are not a solution either.

You have to decide what you want to stop:
Want to stop the most firearm deaths?
Focus on suicide prevention and mental health reform. Gun Control groups will march to ban a weapon that they admit is involved in the smallest amount of firearm deaths, but they won't march for mental health reform. To them, despite what they say, it's not about saving lives, it's about the gun control.

Want to stop active shootings in churches?
Let the church have armed volunteer (or paid) security. There is already a cottage industry made to support church security teams. It very well could be one reason there are much fewer active shootings in churches than schools. FBI active shooter data at places of worship show that whenever an armed security team member intervened, lives were saved. I don't believe any of the church shootings where a security team intervened qualify to also be called a "mass shooting"

Want to stop active shootings in schools?
(1) Harden the schools, and follow the safety policies. Not locking the door, and letting a shooter in is like not wearing your seatbelt and getting injured in an auto accident, and then saying we need to make cars safer. Use the existing tool.
(2) Hold the govt paid employees responsible for their actions. Failures of the sheriff, school admins, fbi, etc allowed Parkland, Oxford and the carnage at Uvalde to happen
(3) Actually start using the methods the Secret Service made available to schools to identify threats. A lot of the same tactics they use to protect the President. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/us/p ... tings.html
(4) Allow those teachers/coaches/administrators/custodians willing to take the responsibility and training to conceal carry at school. Going back to the church example, FBI data supports places of worship with security teams have saved lives in active shootings. Why wouldn't it be the same in schools?

Want to stop Mass Shootings?
Most mass shootings are drug/gang/criminal activity related. Tackle the gang problem. Legalize drugs.
Second most mass shootings are domestic incidents. Access to better health care. Maybe some type of red flag could help, but so far, states that have implemented red flags are not showing an improvement in firearm deaths.

Want to stop accidental shootings?
Prior to Covid, accidental shooting deaths had been on a decline and were at the lowest level ever recorded. Go back and do more of what they were doing. More NRA Eddie Eagle programs, more gun safety, make every student take hunters safety education.

The stupid arbitrary shit politicians want to do won't move the needle should be discarded as nothing more than political theater.
Magazine limits - because it takes one second to swap a magazine.
Banning "assault weapons" - but they can't define that. So they allow one semi-automatic rifle with a wood stock and detachable magazine, but not the scary black semi-automatic rifle with the pistol grip or flash hider. It doesn't change the lethality of the weapon at all.
Trying to ban the 5.56 NATO round because it's so dangerous, and forgetting that the 7.62x51 NATO and 30-06 that we used quite successfully during two world wars, Korea, etc have double the energy.
One gun a month? Since the majority of crimes are done with firearms acquired illegally, what absolute difference would that make?
etc.
Last edited by j-cubed on Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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