Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Pinky wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Pinky wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:Pretty impressive editorial. I'm a little surprised we've had zero elected Republicans endorse Hillary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
You're surprised they haven't endorsed a Democratic candidate with a majority unfavorable rating who would never qualify for another security clearance through the normal process?
That was a stupid thing to do. It isn't in the same universe of stupid of what Trump has done.
It's far worse than anything Trump has done (so far). She was "extremely careless" with classified information simply because the rules that everyone else has to deal with were inconvenient for her Highness. The Federal government won't even give you access to confidential information without making it very clear (through repeated, boring training) that you can't do anything close to what she did. But she's Hillary Fucking Clinton, and she'll send classified information through insecure channels whenever (or wherever) she wants to. Anyone else would have (at least) had their clearance pulled.
You're deluded. Senior officials deliberately leaking classified information against the public's interest for political or personal reasons is fairly common and nobody (except Scooter and Patraeus) gets investigated, let alone prosecuted. Adherence to those rules goes down as the govt. employee goes up the chain of command.

Clinton's stupid behavior doesn't even rise to that. It's a case study on how easy it is to convince people that fairly common behavior can be reframed as criminal.

Again, I'm not justifying it, it's mildly scandalous. But people who think Hillary belongs in jail or is disqualified from office should be calling for for Cheney, Patraeus and Scooter to be executed.
No Presidential candidate, including Trump, has ever done anything remotely similar (that we know of). She is unqualified in a way that is quite unique.
Take any of the disqualifying statements the WP assigned to Trump and imagine Hillary said/did them.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

Post by TerryB »

Blaidd Drwg wrote:You can lead a horticulture......

I'll not bother trying to explain how a wealthy white man rides the grease trail of money and bluster and bullshit to a develop a recognizable and yet completely shabby brand of shit hotels. Proto, if you think his rhetoric is compelling there is nothing any of us could do to help.

HOWEVER...

How he "made his money" is easy to understand once you realize, He's a "developer." Developer is synonymous with gambler...except gamblers use their own money. Contrary to your assumptions, you do not have to be bright to be one. I know several dozen, some of whom have fortunes less than a 10th of his to ones that dwarf his fortune many times over. The single biggest characteristic? being willing to lose other people's money. Now if you think this translates to government...you're right. It does. Spending other people's paper is job one of the POTUS. But what about his brilliance as a "developer"...Um No suck thing. Developers are not even decent managers, they are magicians at getting financing. Every other major element of the vision is offloaded to someone who know what they fuck they are doing.

In the development world, success comes down to making a few lucky hits here and there and while off loading responsibility for the larger preponderance of projects which are always disaster. Donald like all other Developers, is in the money losing business. He's lost far far more money that he's made all while surrounded, as all developers are, by a muliti-million dollar legal, planning, lobbying, engineering and architecture teams. He writes checks, he makes a few forgone conclusion type decisions and he establish relationships. He walked into the room with those. The relationships that are most telling are the number of people he's burned over the years.

So yeah...he's had good luck. He was well staked and he knew the right people. If you cant fall upward off of that backing, you're a fucking idiot.
It sounds pretty easy. You should try it. You're smarter than Trump, certainly more capable of hiring the right people, managing people and projects, understanding risks and finance, and risking other people's money. I imagine the BD corporation(s) would, in 40 years, be something much more impressive than a "completely shabby brand" of hotels.

He started with a loan for $1,000,000 and now has businesses and properties worth somewhere around $2-3 billion or so. I imagine you could get a loan for $250,000 pretty easily. I think you could turn that $250,000 into $500,000,000 over the next 40 years, give or take.

While you're putting together your finance plan, tell us this: what experience or personality traits should a person have to be a good President? Executive decision making experience? Tenacity? Experience working with people at all levels on high value projects? Several years in the Senate? Clear vision?
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

Post by TerryB »

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Pinky wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Pinky wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote:Pretty impressive editorial. I'm a little surprised we've had zero elected Republicans endorse Hillary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html
You're surprised they haven't endorsed a Democratic candidate with a majority unfavorable rating who would never qualify for another security clearance through the normal process?
That was a stupid thing to do. It isn't in the same universe of stupid of what Trump has done.
It's far worse than anything Trump has done (so far). She was "extremely careless" with classified information simply because the rules that everyone else has to deal with were inconvenient for her Highness. The Federal government won't even give you access to confidential information without making it very clear (through repeated, boring training) that you can't do anything close to what she did. But she's Hillary Fucking Clinton, and she'll send classified information through insecure channels whenever (or wherever) she wants to. Anyone else would have (at least) had their clearance pulled.
You're deluded. Senior officials deliberately leaking classified information against the public's interest for political or personal reasons is fairly common and nobody (except Scooter and Patraeus) gets investigated, let alone prosecuted. Adherence to those rules goes down as the govt. employee goes up the chain of command.

Clinton's stupid behavior doesn't even rise to that. It's a case study on how easy it is to convince people that fairly common behavior can be reframed as criminal.

Again, I'm not justifying it, it's mildly scandalous. But people who think Hillary belongs in jail or is disqualified from office should be calling for for Cheney, Patraeus and Scooter to be executed.
No Presidential candidate, including Trump, has ever done anything remotely similar (that we know of). She is unqualified in a way that is quite unique.
Take any of the disqualifying statements the WP assigned to Trump and imagine Hillary said/did them.
Take any of Hillary's actions with regard to email, and imagine Cheney said/did them.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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TerryB wrote:Take any of Hillary's actions with regard to email, and imagine Cheney said/did them.
What? Dick Cheney is plausibly alleged to have deliberately leaked classified information to burn a CIA agent in retaliation against her husband.

Email practices that could result in an inadvertent leak is not in the same galaxy of offense.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Grandpa's Spells wrote: What? Dick Cheney is plausibly alleged to have deliberately leaked classified information to burn a CIA agent in retaliation against her husband.

Email practices that could result in an inadvertent leak is not in the same galaxy of offense.

First, you're comparing speculative (Cheney) to proven (Hillary's email dishonesty).

Second, whoever revealed Plame's identity (her own husband flirted with that himself, IIRC), exposed her to no danger because she was safe & sound working in Langley.
OTOH, Hillary intentionally constructed a vulnerable email system that exposed several classified names and systematically exposed strategies, sources, and methods to any interested hacker. And only a fool would think that Russia, China, and others were not interested.

The breadth of irresponsibility and potential damage is not in the same galaxy. We haven't even discussed the nightmare scenario of a foreign power having blackmail/extortion power over our next President.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

TerryB wrote:
Blaidd Drwg wrote:You can lead a horticulture......

I'll not bother trying to explain how a wealthy white man rides the grease trail of money and bluster and bullshit to a develop a recognizable and yet completely shabby brand of shit hotels. Proto, if you think his rhetoric is compelling there is nothing any of us could do to help.

HOWEVER...

How he "made his money" is easy to understand once you realize, He's a "developer." Developer is synonymous with gambler...except gamblers use their own money. Contrary to your assumptions, you do not have to be bright to be one. I know several dozen, some of whom have fortunes less than a 10th of his to ones that dwarf his fortune many times over. The single biggest characteristic? being willing to lose other people's money. Now if you think this translates to government...you're right. It does. Spending other people's paper is job one of the POTUS. But what about his brilliance as a "developer"...Um No suck thing. Developers are not even decent managers, they are magicians at getting financing. Every other major element of the vision is offloaded to someone who know what they fuck they are doing.

In the development world, success comes down to making a few lucky hits here and there and while off loading responsibility for the larger preponderance of projects which are always disaster. Donald like all other Developers, is in the money losing business. He's lost far far more money that he's made all while surrounded, as all developers are, by a muliti-million dollar legal, planning, lobbying, engineering and architecture teams. He writes checks, he makes a few forgone conclusion type decisions and he establish relationships. He walked into the room with those. The relationships that are most telling are the number of people he's burned over the years.

So yeah...he's had good luck. He was well staked and he knew the right people. If you cant fall upward off of that backing, you're a fucking idiot.
It sounds pretty easy. You should try it. You're smarter than Trump, certainly more capable of hiring the right people, managing people and projects, understanding risks and finance, and risking other people's money. I imagine the BD corporation(s) would, in 40 years, be something much more impressive than a "completely shabby brand" of hotels.

He started with a loan for $1,000,000 and now has businesses and properties worth somewhere around $2-3 billion or so. I imagine you could get a loan for $250,000 pretty easily. I think you could turn that $250,000 into $500,000,000 over the next 40 years, give or take.

While you're putting together your finance plan, tell us this: what experience or personality traits should a person have to be a good President? Executive decision making experience? Tenacity? Experience working with people at all levels on high value projects? Several years in the Senate? Clear vision?

Wisdom. Perspective. Loyalty to principles. Communication.

I am no fan of Reagan, but he had all those things. Imagine of he had ridden the slug trail of daddy's money and influences to a reality TV career and then chose to say the idiotic beyond compare type of shit the the Donald extrudes.

The Right would have burned that man at the stake.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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johno wrote:
Blaidd Drwg wrote: So yeah...he's had good luck. He was well staked and he knew the right people. If you cant fall upward off of that backing, you're a fucking idiot.
I yield to your superior knowledge of developers, in specifics.
However, there must be a considerable failure rate, no? Trump is just lucky? I tend to doubt it.

Re: Hillary - much is made of the boost Trump got from his Father's financial support. But there's no reason to think H could have succeeded, except for Bill's coattails.

Trump has tremendous gifts. Not of intelligence or perspective but of bluster and gamesmanship. Is he lucky? Hells yeah he's lucky beyond compare. He's lost repeatedly and woefully yet manages to con his way into financing. Can ANYBODY do that? Hell no. He's a rare bird, but his particular gifts are utterly transparent and to suggest that by any metric he's a bright guy or a good fit for COC is beyond stupid. Conning people out of their money is a tremendous skill. It's not one I want in a President.

As long as he does not win, I'm happy for the RNC..this might be the wake up call that will get the fundies and neo-con chicken hawks out of the party and bring it back to broadly American values. I would love to be able to vote republican for the executive. Until then, I'll vote as I have the last 4 times. Libertarian out of principle if not practicality.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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johno wrote:Re: Hillary - much is made of the boost Trump got from his Father's financial support. But there's no reason to think H could have succeeded, except for Bill's coattails.

Not that it's at issue here but Hell Yes. She is ON PAPER "qualified." I see no reason in her record to assume she's a capable executive. The fact she's learned from Bill how to go hard with the cuttthroat maneuvering is the ONLY thing I can say in her favor...other than she isn't likely to fuck up as colossally as Trump.

I don't know a single male Dem right now (and I know many) who wouldn't gladly put GWB (with his ocean of missteps) basck in office over that harpy.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Trump has tremendous gifts. Not of intelligence or perspective but of bluster and gamesmanship. Is he lucky? Hells yeah he's lucky beyond compare. He's lost repeatedly and woefully yet manages to con his way into financing.
Wow! Your argument is, Trump's an evil genius who's not intelligent but has managed to repeatedly dupe sophisticated banks and lenders.

Who are these foolish lenders and banks?
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXS3vW47mOE[/youtube]

GWB did the first one, Obama did another and started a third. Gee, I wonder which candidate supported all 3 so far and is an insider more likely to continue this bullshit plan that's had just great results the world over?
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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TerryB wrote:
Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Trump has tremendous gifts. Not of intelligence or perspective but of bluster and gamesmanship. Is he lucky? Hells yeah he's lucky beyond compare. He's lost repeatedly and woefully yet manages to con his way into financing.
Wow! Your argument is, Trump's an evil genius who's not intelligent but has managed to repeatedly dupe sophisticated banks and lenders.

Who are these foolish lenders and banks?

Proto you're out of your element.

He's not a genius, he's a connected huckster and a liar...and Son, if you knew the absolutely ridiculous metrics that VC money, esp. Chinese VC money relies on the get spread around, you'd cringe. Developing is gambling.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:I don't know a single male Dem right now (and I know many) who wouldn't gladly put GWB (with his ocean of missteps) basck in office over that harpy.
I don't know a lot of Democrats of either gender who don't think GWB was a Shitty President for the Ages, including a at least a few who really liked his dad.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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That's a not uncommon assessment....but there's not question in my mind, Trump is a far worse possibility.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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YES! I want to know where all those stupid bankers are too! I'll go rip them off for 100-200K and build me a shabby hotel and casino with a cool apartment top floor some place.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Andy82 wrote:YES! I want to know where all those stupid bankers are too! I'll go rip them off for 100-200K and build me a shabby hotel and casino with a cool apartment top floor some place.

It's the reverse of the adage...when you own the bank 100 grand you have a problem, when you own the bank 100 million, they have a problem. You need to think big, the only way to dupe Chink Venture Capitalists is lots of spreadsheets and big big promises. Many big deals don;t flow positive for a long time after development, the people making the money are the service providers, material suppliers and contractors. Long term it's a build/crash/buy back scenario. Make that money on the front end, bail out, come back and buy once your partners have reached their breaking point.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Herv100 wrote:
GWB did the first one, Obama did another and started a third. Gee, I wonder which candidate supported all 3 so far and is an insider more likely to continue this bullshit plan that's had just great results the world over?
Yet no media mention of "Obama's Wars." Or "The Pottery Barn rule" that was parroted daily during the W administration. The same kid gloves treatment will go for Hillary, at least until halfway into her first term.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Andy82 wrote:YES! I want to know where all those stupid bankers are too! I'll go rip them off for 100-200K and build me a shabby hotel and casino with a cool apartment top floor some place.

It's the reverse of the adage...when you own the bank 100 grand you have a problem, when you own the bank 100 million, they have a problem. You need to think big, the only way to dupe Chink Venture Capitalists is lots of spreadsheets and big big promises. Many big deals don;t flow positive for a long time after development, the people making the money are the service providers, material suppliers and contractors. Long term it's a build/crash/buy back scenario. Make that money on the front end, bail out, come back and buy once your partners have reached their breaking point.
So, for the past 40-odd years, he's been fleecing chinamen?
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Is he a real estate developer?

Ummmm yeah. How many lawsuits? Bankruptcies? Shady practices?
Admire him all you like, he's a piece of shit and a deeply stupid man. You would be able to learn this either from a topical understanding of his business practices OR you could listen to the shit he says.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Andy82 wrote:YES! I want to know where all those stupid bankers are too! I'll go rip them off for 100-200 ( Mil) and build me a shabby hotel and casino with a cool apartment top floor some place.
I don't know what the fuck you're (Blade) talking about but my bad, I meant to say 100-200 million.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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TerryB wrote:So, for the past 40-odd years, he's been fleecing chinamen?
he uses the chinese to make his signature ties and his daughter's line of clothing. somehow this puts americans to work, reduces our trade imbalance, and makes us great. . . again.

as for fleecing, perhaps it is the russians with whom he is in bed. that's george will's belief, and he says it is the reason trump won't release his tax returns. that is as plausible as any conspiracy theory donald has spun.

putin hacked the dnc for his pumpkinness. and when donald starts getting security briefings, he can tell vlad our secrets.

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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Is making ties for his clothing line in China actually part of the GOP platform to improve the US economy or did you make that up?
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Adherence to those rules goes down as the govt. employee goes up the chain of command.


And how much sense does that make? Why on earth would we hold people who can do more damage to a lower standard? And shouldn't "progressives" be more strongly opposed to such obvious privilege than conservatives are?
Clinton's stupid behavior doesn't even rise to that. It's a case study on how easy it is to convince people that fairly common behavior can be reframed as criminal.
You are a fool. Her behavior is not "fairly common", and no one convinced me that her exceptional behavior is criminal. I knew it was criminal the first time I heard about it. I worked for the government for several years in a job that dealt with a lot of confidential data. I had to take frequent, recurring, boring training to remind me that nothing could go on a flash drive or a laptop, nothing could be accessed from home, one email that contained confidential information was a crime, etc. Then I was reminded of how essential it is that the data be protected in this way.

And I was only working with confidential information. Classified information is given more protections, and the people who work with it have even stricter procedures beaten into their heads. They know that being "extremely careless" with one email could (and should) cost them their job.

When Comey said that anyone who did what Hillary did would face administrative sanctions, that's what he was talking about. No more clearance, and no more job.

But not for the Queen of Privilege. She gets a promotion, and you think that's OK.

You are the delusional one.
But people who think Hillary belongs in jail or is disqualified from office should be calling for for Cheney, Patraeus and Scooter to be executed.


Do you think Petraeus or Libby will ever get a security clearance again? Would you ever vote for Cheney? Do you think any career civil servant who was caught sending classified information to a private server, or revealing such information to people without clearance, would be given a higher clearance?
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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johno wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote: What? Dick Cheney is plausibly alleged to have deliberately leaked classified information to burn a CIA agent in retaliation against her husband.

Email practices that could result in an inadvertent leak is not in the same galaxy of offense.

First, you're comparing speculative (Cheney) to proven (Hillary's email dishonesty).

Second, whoever revealed Plame's identity (her own husband flirted with that himself, IIRC), exposed her to no danger because she was safe & sound working in Langley.
OTOH, Hillary intentionally constructed a vulnerable email system that exposed several classified names and systematically exposed strategies, sources, and methods to any interested hacker. And only a fool would think that Russia, China, and others were not interested.

The breadth of irresponsibility and potential damage is not in the same galaxy. We haven't even discussed the nightmare scenario of a foreign power having blackmail/extortion power over our next President.
Robert Novak "leaked' the info on Plame, who without question pushed her husband to go investigate the yellowcake issue. The Special Prosecutor knew that going in.

C'mon.
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

Post by Andy83 »

Well it's settled, folks!! Blade dog, the urban planner trainee local govt(Seattle). whiz kid has spoken about real estate developing. He knows everything about anything.
BTW, Blade what is the best addictive drug for a 13 year old to get started on?
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Re: Trump's Acceptance Speech...

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Donald Trump doesn't know what state Tim Kaine is from:
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/27/12298512/d ... ack-russia
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