Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Topics without replies are pruned every 365 days. Not moderated.

Moderator: Dux

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Turdacious »

When the four police officers who had been videotaped beating motorist Rodney King were found not guilty of criminal acts in 1992, the city of Los Angeles erupted in the worst rioting seen in the US since the 1960s. The loss of life and destruction of property left a significant scar on the city. Time-series analysis indicates that the Rodney King riots not only reduced taxable sales in the city immediately following the unrest, but that this social catastrophe has had a lasting impact on the economic performance of the city of Los Angeles. In the 10 years since the riots, this continued loss of taxable sales has translated into a cumulative loss of at least $3.8 billion in taxable sales and over $125 million in direct sales tax revenue losses.
http://usj.sagepub.com/content/41/13/2691.short
A shrinking tax base will be the rioter's only accomplishment, and every suburb around St. Loo will be fighting all attempts to expand public housing in their boundaries. Spells will have to build a very large bakery.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

User avatar

Grandpa's Spells
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 11367
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:08 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Turdacious wrote:So the prosecutor saved Missouri taxpayers the expense of a trial that likely wouldn't have resulted in a conviction? Isn't that what prosecutors should do all the time, both for the benefit of the taxpayer and the accused?
No. Try to get an indictment, or don't go to a grand jury. Giving the defendant everything he needs to craft a narrative, and then releasing that to the public is dirty. Blatant pretend time is unacceptable.

Here's a cop's somewhat similar conclusion but with a different take:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -walk.html
The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:The life long democrat prosecutor protected the cop because he wants to fortify in the community's mind that due process is for white people? You really believe this?
First, the last Republican mayor was in the 1940's, so democratic allegiance is default. Second, this was a nutshell of the professor's takeaway of the unintended consequence, not my opinion. The intention of the prosecutor was to make sure the cop walked.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Turdacious »

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Turdacious wrote:So the prosecutor saved Missouri taxpayers the expense of a trial that likely wouldn't have resulted in a conviction? Isn't that what prosecutors should do all the time, both for the benefit of the taxpayer and the accused?
No. Try to get an indictment, or don't go to a grand jury. Giving the defendant everything he needs to craft a narrative, and then releasing that to the public is dirty. Blatant pretend time is unacceptable.
Somehow I get the impression that the prosecutor deciding not to indict and go to grand jury would also be 'dirty'-- anything that doesn't lead to your preferred conclusion is probably 'dirty.'

MAYBE WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE DAYS WHEN 'EVIDENCE OF INNOCENCE IS IRRELEVANT' AND POLITICALLY MOTIVATED SHOW TRIALS. If the glove doesn't fit...
Last edited by Turdacious on Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule


TerryB
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 9697
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:17 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by TerryB »

dead man walking wrote:spells--

gunshot inside the cop car--slug found in the car. gunshot residue on brown's hand. brown's blood inside cop car and on wilson's uniform.

how did brown get a portion of his body in the car? are you suggesting brown walked up to the car and the cop pulled him in?

if not, brown went after the cop in his car.

do you have a different view?
Can anyone rebut this? Spells?
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"

Image


The Venerable Bogatir X
Supreme Martian Overlord
Posts: 15563
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:05 pm
Location: Nice planet. We'll take it.

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

Let's not forget that The Obama by way of Holder, ordered "dozens" of FBI agents to the area to run a concurrent investigation. Dollars to donuts says those agents, for the most part, were not the Nebraska Farm Boy type and were more likely of various shades of color other than white. Information was freely exchanged between the feds and the locals. I think it's more than safe to say it's unlikely any dirt was being swept anywhere in this case.

With that said, a couple of points to the cop's story seem just a little off....but witnesses, especially victims, don't necessarily give accurate recollections of what happened (in this case a Mope attacking a cop I'm calling the cop 'victim'). If there were any shade to his account that could have been discounted, it would have been brought to light.

Different tactics, procedures or training would have likely avoided all of this. Regardless, it's hard to argue against the world being just a little bit better off without Brown in it.

The DA's office releasing or not releasing GJ particulars was a no win either way. The cop would not have been indicted regardless and the evidence sealed, the Spells of the world would be hollering about the lack of details in that scenario, too.

User avatar

DrDonkeyLove
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 8034
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:04 am
Location: Deep in a well

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by DrDonkeyLove »

Grandpa's Spells wrote:Had an interesting talk with a St. Louis U. law professor who had former students involved in the case on the prosecution side, and as is so often the case, the media doesn't really point out some things that are obvious to people on the inside.

The reason they say any prosecutor worth a damn can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich is because the threshold for success is incredibly low. All you you have to so is show the possibility of, "Could a crime have been committed?" and "Did this guy do it?" And you have great discretion in how to proceed. To that end, you don't cross-examine your own witnesses or put up those who contradict each other (this prosecutor did both), you don't throw all the evidence up so that the defendant can craft a story that won't be contradicted, only exceedingly rare circumstances would you let a defendant testify (white collar crime involving a govt. employee or maybe a he-said/she-said sexual assault case, never a murder), particularly at length and never with no cross-examination.

This guy said, given the facts of the matter, a conviction would not have been likely at trial, but the prosecutor took a deliberate dive on a case that absolutely would have went to trial under any normal circumstance, and had Wilson been guilty, he handed him all the information to craft a narrative that wouldn't be contradicted by the evidence. Zero to do with political pressure, everything to do with protecting the cop, and furthering a strong sense in the community that due process is for white people.
A good question might be, would the DA have done the same thing if this case wasn't a political hornets nest? My guess is probably not and that he would have simply declared the shooting justified. After all, Wilson was attacked in the line of duty by a strong arm robber who wouldn't stop and Brown had a demon's face!! This would have been SOP 99.9% of the time.

But, since it is a hornets nest situation, he needed to balance the demands of law & order voters and the police unions with those of a very important Dem voting bloc. He also had to do the two most important things a politician (a DA is a politician) must do: take the heat off of his bosses and protect his own political career.

It looks to me like took the road that ended up where he thought it should (probably justifiably) with the least blowback on himself. The Grand Jury did it!

Since both Brown and Wilson have been reduced to conflicting symbols in a greater meme war the truth hardly matters anyway.
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Turdacious »

Actually to give Spells a little credit (although his general argument is still full of holes and supposition):
As of the census of 2010, there were 998,954 people. There were 404,765 households with 263,423 family households. The population density was 1,966 people per square mile (773/km²). There were 423,749 housing units at an average density of 834 per square mile (322/km²). The racial makeup of the county was 70.3% White (68.9% Non-Hispanic White), 23.3% African American, 0.2% Native American, 3.5% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 0.9% from other races, and 1.9% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.5% of the population.[40]
As of 2009, the largest employment sectors in St. Louis County are education and health (25.2%), trade and transportation (19.6%), and professional business services (12.7%).[41] The county also has the highest per capita income in the state of Missouri ($49,727), and nearly one-fourth of the state workforce is employed in St. Louis County,[42] but it accounts for 27% of the state's wages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_ ... mographics
None of this changes the nearly universal consensus that the prosecution had an unwinnable case. None of this changes the ugly reality that state and federal housing policy created another Pruitt-Igoe in Ferguson, effectively creating a powder keg.
None of this changes the fact that no matter how inartfully he said it, that Giuliani's point is valid (especially when you adjust for population).
Image
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

User avatar

Grandpa's Spells
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 11367
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:08 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

T>1200 wrote:
dead man walking wrote:spells--

gunshot inside the cop car--slug found in the car. gunshot residue on brown's hand. brown's blood inside cop car and on wilson's uniform.

how did brown get a portion of his body in the car? are you suggesting brown walked up to the car and the cop pulled him in?

if not, brown went after the cop in his car.

do you have a different view?
Can anyone rebut this? Spells?
This depends on how likely you think it is that a police officer will do something dumb vs. a suspect being suicidal.

Here's a video of a guy going for his license getting shot for it. In this scenario, there are likely bullets in the car and door and blood in the car. He also gets shot again with his hands up, interestingly enough. Without video, the cop can pretty easily testify, "I told him to stop, he put his hand in his waistband and jumped into the car, big/scary/crazy face, said 'fuck you pig you're dead,' I feared for my life, so I opened fire." And if the victim were dead, that would be about all there was to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

Now, from the cop's point of view, I can appreciate that he was expecting the guy to pull a license from his pocket, not go into his car for it. If the victim died and there was no dash cam, even recalling the events as he remembered them would likely seem a lot more threatening than they were in reality.

A police officer calling a guy over to his car window is not unusual. The Wilson's own version is he pulled his car in close enough to be unable to open the door without it hitting Brown/Brown hitting it. Cops panicking and/or escalating things dangerously is not at all unheard of. Pulling an initially non-resisting Brown by the collar towards/in the car is not at all impossible for a guy who's 6'4 210#. Would this be smart? No. But more plausible than Wilson's version of the events. Wilson's version requires Brown to be suicidal.

Wilson's version of the dialogue alone is absolutely ridiculous. I'm a little surprised nobody has at least allowed that much.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Turdacious »

Image
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Turdacious »

And it gets weirder...
The last thing an attorney might expect to receive at a deposition is a brain, but that's what the man said he was handing over.

A brain. In a bucket.

Sliding the bucket across the table and opening the lid, the man urged the lawyer, Michael Hodges, to take it. Hodges declined. The deposition continued.

This might have gone down as just on odd moment in Kansas legal history were it not for the fact that about a year later the defendant, Shawn Parcells, ended up playing an instrumental role in the case of Michael Brown, who was fatally shot by a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer in August.

Parcells became an overnight media star in August when he assisted in an autopsy commissioned by Brown's family. He appeared time and again on major media outlets as a forensic pathology expert. He said over the years he's testified in court dozens of times in several states.

But an investigation by CNN that included interviews with attorneys, law enforcement and physicians suggests Parcells isn't the expert he seems to be.

And handing a lawyer a brain in a bucket isn't the only unusual thing he's done.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/26/healt ... ar_twitter
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule


Protobuilder
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 5038
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Protobuilder »

T>1200 wrote:
dead man walking wrote:spells--

gunshot inside the cop car--slug found in the car. gunshot residue on brown's hand. brown's blood inside cop car and on wilson's uniform.

how did brown get a portion of his body in the car? are you suggesting brown walked up to the car and the cop pulled him in?

if not, brown went after the cop in his car.

do you have a different view?
Can anyone rebut this? Spells?
If you mean with facts and evidence, no. However, my beliefs in this matter are firmly rooted in my opinions.
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.


Sua Sponte
Gunny
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:12 am

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Sua Sponte »

Article


One of the most recent of the seemingly never-ending succession of Progressive complaints about the Ferguson Grand Jury is that the Grand Jury’s decision not to indict is inherently flawed because they were permitted to consider self-defense.

Those professing this argument rely for support on one of their favorite variations of the classic “straw man argument”: they quote an authoritative Conservative figure in purported support of their position.

In this case, they are calling upon none other than Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, as in the Think Progress post: Justice Scalia Explains What Was Wrong With The Ferguson Grand Jury.

In particular, the Think Progress post states the following:

Justice Antonin Scalia, in the 1992 Supreme Court case of United States v. Williams, explained what the role of a grand jury has been for hundreds of years.

It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880). As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented.

This passage was first highlighted by attorney Ian Samuel, a former clerk to Justice Scalia.


What Does Williams Actually Say?

But is it true that Williams holds it is inappropriate for the prosecution to share evidence of self-defense with a Grand Jury, as was done in Ferguson? Let’s have a look.

Williams involved a case in which the defendant (Williams, naturally) had his indictment dismissed by a Federal District Court because the prosecution failed to present “substantial exculpatory evidence” favorable to the defense. The District Court cited a local rule which mandated that the prosecution do so. The Appellate Court affirmed this dismissal of the indictment, and the matter ended up before the Supreme Court.

Drawing here from the Court’s syllabus of Williams, for purposes of conciseness, the decision holds in in relevant part:

[R]equiring the prosecutor to present exculpatory as well as inculpatory evidence would alter the grand jury’s historical role, transforming it from an accusatory body that sits to assess whether there is adequate basis for bringing a criminal charge into an adjudicatory body that sits to determine guilt or innocence. Because it has always been thought sufficient for the grand jury to hear only the prosecutor’s side, and, consequently that the suspect has no right to present, and the grand jury no obligation to consider, exculpatory evidence, it would be incompatible with the traditional system to impose upon the prosecutor a legal obligation to present such evidence.

(emphasis added)

Williams Says Prosecution May Not Be Required To Present Exculpatory Evidence To Grand Jury

It requires no more than modest intelligence to note the particular contextual language used by Scalia in Williams.

“Requiring the prosecutor to present exculpatory as well as inculpatory evidence . . . “

“[S]uspect has no right to present, and the grand jury no obligation to consider, exculpatory evidence . . . “

t would be incompatible with the traditional system to impose upon the prosecutor a legal obligation to present [exculpatory] evidence . . . “

Clearly there is nothing–not one single word–of Williams that so much as suggests that the prosecutor may not or should not upon its own discretion and initiative present whatever exculpatory evidence it feels might advance the purposes of justice, nor is there a word of prohibition on the matter of presenting exculpatory evidence.

Williams merely says that the prosecution can not be required or obligated to present exculpatory evidence, nor have the legal obligation to present exculpatory evidence imposed upon them.

So It’s Good That No One Did Require Prosecution to Present Exculpatory Evidence to Grand Jury in Ferguson

No one, not even Think Progress, is suggesting that any authority over the prosecution required or obligated the prosecution to present exculpatory evidence, nor that they had legal obligation to present exculpatory evidence imposed upon them with respect to the Ferguson Grand Jury.

Thus, Williams is irrelevant to the Ferguson Grand Jury proceedings as a simple matter of law.

Was Presenting Evidence of Self-Defense to Grand Jury Inappropriate Even Absent Williams?

Now that we’ve discarded Williams as relevant to the Ferguson Grand Jury, it behooves us to consider the broader issue of whether there is something aberrant or contrary to justice in presenting evidence of self-defense to a Grand Jury. After all, it is correctly noted that Grand Juries are rarely presented with a defendant’s legal defense of, say, alibi or misidentification.

Surely then, the prosecution must have have been acting aberrantly when they presented the Ferguson Grand Jury with evidence of Wilson’s having acted in self-defense?

The answer is, simply put, is no.

Self-Defense: Not Your Usual Legal Defense

Why? Because self-defense is a fundamentally different defense than alibi or misidentification or any other non-justification defense.

When a defendant argues an alibi defense, he is not contesting that a crime has been committed. Indeed, whether a crime has been committed or not is irrelevant to his defense, because his defense is that regardless of whether the underlying crime occurred, he was not there. Whoever committed the claimed criminal acts, they were committed by someone else.

But a crime was committed. Indeed, if the prosecution cannot establish that fact, for example if they cannot present probable cause on any element of the criminal charge, the Grand Jury is required to not indict.

Similarly with a misidentification defense. Again, the defendant is not contesting that a crime has been committed, but rather is arguing that whoever committed the crime, it was some person similar in appearance to him, but not him.

But again a crime was committed. Indeed, if the prosecution cannot establish that fact, for example if they cannot present probable cause on any element of the criminal charge, the Grand Jury is required to not indict.

A justification defense such as self-defense is a different animal of legal defense entirely.

Self-defense does not contest that the defendant committed the underlying acts. It does not claim that he was somewhere else, as in an alibi defense, or that some similar appearing person other than him committed the acts, as in a misidentification defense.

Self-defense effectively requires the defendant to concede to having committed the charged acts. One cannot simultaneously refuse to have committed the charged acts and simultaneously claim self-defense–to do so is an outright logical inconsistency.

Self-defense is an inherently deliberate act–you perceived a threat, and acted against it.

More importantly, an act of self-defense eliminates completely any criminality associated with the underlying actions that would otherwise be criminal.

Self-Defense Eliminates the Criminality of What Would Otherwise be a Criminal Act

In other words, self-defense acts to eliminate the criminality of the underlying acts, and thus effectively becomes a negative element of the criminal charge. It is for this reason that 49 of 50 states require that at trial it is the burden of the prosecution to disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt–just as the prosecution must prove each and every element of the criminal charge beyond a reasonable doubt.

More simply, if an otherwise criminal act was committed in self-defense, no crime has been committed at all.

It is the duty of the Grand Jury to determine whether there exists probable cause that a crime has been committed, and that the defendant is the person who committed the underlying acts.

In a self-defense case, of course, the second question is not contested–the defendant concedes up front that he committed the underlying acts, else he would not be entitled to claim self-defense at all.

The first question, however–there’s the rub.

In order for the Grand Jury to determine whether there exists probable cause that has been committed in a self-defense case, they must do more than merely determine whether there exists probable cause as to each and every element of the criminal charge. This they must do, surely, because if they do not the Grand Jury will be instructed to not indict.

But in a case involving self-defense, probable cause on each and every element of the criminal charge is necessary but not sufficient for an indictment.

Why? Because probable cause could exist on each and every element of the criminal charge and yet probable cause of a crime necessary to support an indictment still be lacking.

Why? Because self-defense eliminates the criminality of the otherwise criminal underlying acts.

If Evidence of Self-Defense Is Adequate To Eliminate Probable Cause of a Crime, There Can Be No Indictment

A shooting done in self-defense, then, is simply not a crime at all, and if there is no crime there can be no indictment.

If either the evidence on the elements of the criminal charge is inadequate to support probable cause that a crime has occurred, or the evidence on self-defense is sufficient to eliminate probable case that a crime has occurred, the outcome from the Grand Jury’s perspective must necessarily be the same: no-true-bill.

Thus, just as it is perfectly appropriate for the Grand Jury to consider all relevant evidence on each and every element of the criminal charge, it is equally appropriate for the Grand Jury to consider all relevant evidence on the matter of self-defense.

To Deny That the Grand Jury Should Consider Self-Defense is to Embrace an Absurdity

Indeed, to deny that the Grand Jury should consider self-defense is to embrace a legal and logical absurdity.

As noted, in cases of self-defense,the defendant necessarily concedes the underlying criminal acts, but defends them on the grounds that he was legally justified to commit the acts as a matter of lawful self-defense.

Were the Grand Jury be permitted to consider only the concession of the use of force, but not the claimed justification, then each and every act of self-defense would necessarily result in an indictment and be brought to trial, no matter how strongly the evidence in its totality supported the justification of that use of force.

A Secret Service Agent cuts down an assassin moments before the killer can take the President’s life, all caught on cameras by news agencies worldwide as the President delivers a major policy speech? Sorry, Agent, here’s your indictment, we’ll see you at the trial. After all, he concedes he committed the killing, and merely claims legal justification for doing so–but the Grand Jury is not permitted to hear the justifcation.

A maniac gunning down children in a school is shot and killed by the school resource officer assigned to that duty, all events testified to by scores of surviving teachers and students? Sorry, officer, here’s your indictment, we’ll see you at trial. Again, the Grand Jury is permitted to hear the concession of the use of force, but not the justification.

A murderously abusive husband invades his wife’s place of work, killing her colleagues with shotgun blasts as he seeks her out, until a security officer takes him out with a well-placed gun shot to the head, all events caught on the company’s CCTV system? Sorry, sir, here’s your indictment, we’ll see you at trial. You get the idea.

I suggest that no reasonable or moral person could possibly argue for such legal outcomes.

User avatar

Grandpa's Spells
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 11367
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:08 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Deliberate distortion by an opinion writer in an attempt to persuade. Who is the author?
Andrew F. Branca is in his third decade of practicing law in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He wrote the first edition of the “Law of Self Defense” in 1997, and is currently in the process of completing the fully revised and updated second edition, which you can preorder now at lawofselfdefense.com. He began his competitive shooting activities as a youth in smallbore rifle, and today is a Life Member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and a Life Member and Master-class competitor in multiple classifications in the International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA). Andrew has for many years been an NRA-certified firearms instructor in pistol, rifle, and personal protection, and has previously served as an Adjunct Instructor on the Law of Self Defense at the SigSauer Academy in Epping, NH. He holds or has held concealed carry permits for Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania, Florida, Utah, Virginia, and other states.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.


Sua Sponte
Gunny
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:12 am

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Sua Sponte »

Oh, ad hominem. Totally dismantles his arguments.

User avatar

Fat Cat
Jesus Christ®
Posts: 40920
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:54 pm
Location: 悪を根付かせるな

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Fat Cat »

Fuck every last person in Missouri.
Image
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell


climber511
Gunny
Posts: 961
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:59 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by climber511 »

Anyone who believes this train wreck is going to further the cause of black white relations is nuttier than hell. It appears this whole fiasco is driving the wedge ever deeper.


The Venerable Bogatir X
Supreme Martian Overlord
Posts: 15563
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:05 pm
Location: Nice planet. We'll take it.

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

climber511 wrote:Anyone who believes this train wreck is going to further the cause of black white relations is nuttier than hell. It appears this whole fiasco is driving the wedge ever deeper.
LOL!

Not to mention the impending Charles Barkley v. Chris Rock cage match!


The Venerable Bogatir X
Supreme Martian Overlord
Posts: 15563
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:05 pm
Location: Nice planet. We'll take it.

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

Sua Sponte wrote:Oh, ad hominem. Totally dismantles his arguments.
You can't be surprised, given Spells has gone all out kook on this thread.

User avatar

johno
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7901
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:36 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by johno »

I think and hope that this Ferguson mess has created a tipping point. Non-Spells white people are becoming numb to knee-jerk charges of racism and many black people are seeing victimization for the Dead End that it is. (See Charles Barkley's comments.)
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

W.B. Yeats


climber511
Gunny
Posts: 961
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:59 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by climber511 »

Race relations in the US suck and seem to be getting worse quickly right now instead of better - Africa seems way way worse than here to be black - especially a black woman. The Middle East isn't exactly the land of the happy towards anyone. What's Europe and the rest of the world like in regards to white/black relations - our news media doesn't have anything to say on this it seems? Does anybody like anybody anywhere? Muslims certainly aren't very tolerant - many Christians aren't very - well - Christian in their attitudes towards others. Native Americans have it worse than the blacks it seems. Hispanics are in a world of shit right now here in the US. And somehow politicians think they can legislate a solution to this mess when they can't even bring a vote to the floor on anything at all. What a great world we live in. I liked things better when I was young and even though this stuff was probably going on - I was blissfully uninformed without a 24/7 news media driving this stuff for more ratings.

OK rant over.

User avatar

powerlifter54
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7976
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: TX

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by powerlifter54 »

The message of this and even Trayvon Martin is the hip hop video badass thugs who try to emulate fantasy in real life can run into somebody who can legally defend themselves with a gun. Not black and white issue, a self defense issue.

But today's Staten Island chokex decision looks way off base. Something very wrong there. No reason for things to get even close to that far.

Wonder how rioting will play out there.
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex


Blaidd Drwg
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 19098
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:39 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

powerlifter54 wrote:The message of this and even Trayvon Martin is the hip hop video badass thugs who try to emulate fantasy in real life can run into somebody who can legally defend themselves with a gun. Not black and white issue, a self defense issue.

But today's Staten Island chokex decision looks way off base. Something very wrong there. No reason for things to get even close to that far.

Wonder how rioting will play out there.

Context.


I can see bein a little over zealous when teh man is 400# and 6'4-5..but this shit was avoidable. Totally.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV8OFgCGmwg[/youtube]

Oh But Wait....there's more...
Grand jury indicts...the guy who filmed Eric Garner's chokehold death
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill


dead man walking
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 6797
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:34 pm

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by dead man walking »

powerlifter54 wrote:The message of this and even Trayvon Martin is the hip hop video badass thugs who try to emulate fantasy in real life can run into somebody who can legally defend themselves with a gun. Not black and white issue, a self defense issue.

But today's Staten Island chokex decision looks way off base. Something very wrong there. No reason for things to get even close to that far.

Wonder how rioting will play out there.
not a black and white issue?

about 90% of those stopped in ny under stop and frisk were black or latino? almost all innocent. as one instructive example.

imagine what the officer friendly thread would look like on a black igx forum
Really Big Strong Guy: There are a plethora of psychopaths among us.


The Ginger Beard Man
Sgt. Major
Posts: 4376
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:27 pm
Location: 4th largest city in America

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by The Ginger Beard Man »

Wonder how rioting will play out there.
We haven't had riots in over 20 years. The cops really dropped the ball on that one, and I suspect that they are capable of handling things with much more competence.
The real question is, will the mayor let them?
I don't have much confidence is DiBlasio
Blaidd Drwg wrote:Disengage from the outcome and do work.
Jezzy Bell wrote:Use a fucking barbell, pansy.


The Venerable Bogatir X
Supreme Martian Overlord
Posts: 15563
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:05 pm
Location: Nice planet. We'll take it.

Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
powerlifter54 wrote:The message of this and even Trayvon Martin is the hip hop video badass thugs who try to emulate fantasy in real life can run into somebody who can legally defend themselves with a gun. Not black and white issue, a self defense issue.

But today's Staten Island chokex decision looks way off base. Something very wrong there. No reason for things to get even close to that far.

Wonder how rioting will play out there.

Context.


I can see bein a little over zealous when teh man is 400# and 6'4-5..but this shit was avoidable. Totally.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV8OFgCGmwg[/youtube]

Oh But Wait....there's more...
Grand jury indicts...the guy who filmed Eric Garner's chokehold death
To your comment in bold, based strictly on that video, I 101% agree. Looked more like MMA training with the bros than even 'gray area' policing to me. The thing that strikes me in this one is that cop knew he was on video and still did that takedown that way....if he realized he was doing something 'wrong', why would he do what he did as homey narrated the takedown on video? Not to mention what happened after he was down.....

Post Reply