Russia and Ukraine

[Sangoma]

I reading now part about what banned to bloggers. Don't see nothing bad in that law :)

Come on, Bill, don't be hypocritical. Government involvement in the media is limiting rights. This is the step back towards state censorship, and you cannot defend it.

That's not to say that western media is completely independent, just that it's done in a different way. And, of course, major news companies are heavily influenced by governments everywhere in the world. But. BUT, overall media is covered by general media laws: you can get sued for defamation, for promoting violence and racism etc., and if you're prepared for these concequences you can say whatever you want. So no, this law is not good at all.

[Fat Cat]

Exactly right. And this gets at the crux of my argument, which is not that Russia or Russians are evil, but that the current Russian administration--much like the Soviet one before it--is evil and measurably so. They are robbing from the Russian people, neglecting the nation, and to accomplish this crime they crush internal dissent and freedom of information.

The absurd appeals to emotion don't even make sense. Bandera was a Nazi collaborator? Guess who was the biggest Nazi collaborator of all time? Putin's archetype, Stalin, from 1939 to 1941 via the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Russia is more than a gang of boisterous and idiotic criminals.

[Wild Bill]

Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

Ha.Ha.Ha. :)

[Fat Cat]

Yeah, you remember when your glorious Soviet leaders promised to be friends with Hitler and love him unconditionally forever?



*SPOILER*




























Things didn't work out that way.

[Wild Bill]

Exactly right.

Neither you nor Smet can't say right it or not :) because noone from you read it law. All you read it is your "independent" news :)

[Fat Cat]

That was from the Moscow Times, not American media.

[Wild Bill]

That was from the Moscow Times, not American media.

So you talking about censorship in Russia and to prove it you post links to Russian sources.

Dosen't it strange?

PS
After Manning and Snouden all freedom wich you have it is freedom to chose betwen cheeseburger and hamburger

[Fat Cat]

That was from the Moscow Times, not American media.

So you talking about censorship in Russia and to prove it you post links to Russian sources.

Dosen't it strange?

PS
After Manning and Snouden all freedom wich you have it is freedom to chose betwen cheeseburger and hamburger

Bill, if you really believe what you just posted then you have admitted that Russian media is not reliable. Either it is, and you agree with the article's point, or you it isn't, and I am right.

[Fat Cat]

Also, it's kind of weird for you to argue so vociferously for your own slavery.

[Wild Bill]

and I am right.

you are always right, i already understood :)

[Fat Cat]

Cool. You can thank me by helping me with a few tricky terms in a Russian book I am translating. I'll PM you later.

[Batboy2/75]

Jesus Bill, tell Putin to invade already!

This shit is getting boring.

[Wild Bill]

This shit is getting boring.

Date of elections 25 May.
All "experts" said that Putin would invade before elections :))
So... not to much time to wait :)

[Sangoma]

Molotov-Ribbentropp pact is just another example of how politics works. For a while they were friends, and Russia supported German invasion of Poland. Supported as in sending troops from the other side and executing thousands of Polish military personnel.

Who is the villain in this is not clear though. Conventional theory is that Hitler violated the Pact and attacked USSR. There is, however, circumstantial evidence that USSR was planning to attack Germany and take control of Europe. This is well elaborated by Victor Suvorov in his "Icebreaker". There is no definite proof of it, and the opinions regarding this are furiously divided.

Pretty much around that time Brittain and France decided to hand over Sudettenland (the area of Czechoslovakia with high proportion of German speaking people) to Hitler. That was done without the participation of Czech representatives. After a few months SLovakia broke away, and Hitler invaded Czech Republic. Brittain had an agreement of military support with Czechs and was under the obligation to defend them from Germany. They did not do that explaining, that the agreement was with Czechoslovakia and not with Czech Republic. This is another illustration of humanitarian politics.

As before, my position is not that Russian government is innocent, but that other governments are not different from it. USA and EU politicians and businessmen pursue their interests, Russian and Ukrainian - theirs. There are no innocents. It's just that the West is better at dressing up economic interests in humanitarian causes.

[Batboy2/75]

This shit is getting boring.

Date of elections 25 May.
All "experts" said that Putin would invade before elections :))
So... not to much time to wait :)

The experts are idiots. Why invade before the elections? The results in these areas are almost a formality. The areas will vote to break away. The Ukraine Government, a government impose by a mob, will ironically cry fowl and do something stupid. Even if the areas don't, the Russians and their "Join Russia" allies can claim the Ukrainians rigged or depressed the vote. Putin will either invade or let things fester.

Letting things fester is a public relation disaster for the Ukrainians and let's Putin look "Statesmen" like. It's all a sham, but an effective one. All the chaos will drive the undecided Russian speakers into the join Russian camp. Only after things have festered for a while will Putin sweep in as the savior. My bet is Putin will let things fester. When your enemies are all busy shooting themselves in the foot, get out of the way.

Putin is a Judoka and a player of chess. He will use force only when he has his enemies unbalanced and Russia is at an extreme advantage. The corrupt and degenerate Western leaders fail to see this. They sadly believe they can reason with, buy off, and or bluff themselves and their mob installed Ukrainian friends out of this mess. They are very mistaken.

Also, western politicians and pundits are under the mistaken assumption that Russia is still in decline. Everything I've read or viewed coming out of Russia indicates a nation on the up swing.

[DARTH]

Vlad's thinking Longterm, the rising Muslim populations on and around his real estate he needs to offset.

Fuck what Barack Obama ,Jen Pskai or any of us think about it, Vlad is in it for Vlad and Russia, which to him and in fact are intertwined.

[Wild Bill]

Putin is a Judoka and a player of chess.

One could say you like him
Seems he really loves Judo, when he became president an did his first visit to Japan, he took his coach with him and they both visited Kodokan :)

Last two paragraphs are about him.
"Judoka Vladimir Putin not known yet to specialists, but he won last championship... ... beside Judo he also training Sambo"

[Wild Bill]

Ukrainian helicopters mistakingly atacked their own troops.
8 killed 18 wounded.
Things are completely messing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGzumIz9Fuk[/youtube]

[Wild Bill]

But Yanukovych was dismissed one year earlier, i am sure it was worth it.

[Batboy2/75]

Putin is a Judoka and a player of chess.

One could say you like him
Seems he really loves Judo, when he became president an did his first visit to Japan, he took his coach with him and they both visited Kodokan :)

Last two paragraphs are about him.
"Judoka Vladimir Putin not known yet to specialists, but he won last championship... ... beside Judo he also training Sambo"

I find Putin interesting. Kind of like a Russian Theodore Roosevelt.

I'm also under no allusions that Putin is a friend of the USA.

[Wild Bill]

Ukrainian helicopters mistakingly atacked their own troops.
8 killed 18 wounded.
Things are completely messing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGzumIz9Fuk[/youtube]

It was fake of some way.
From other news, separatists atacked, then came helicopters, no one knows who killed whom.

[Wild Bill]

minister of culture in Donetsk republic

[Wild Bill]

_

[Wild Bill]

Wanted two girls from the Kherson region who have infected with gonorrhea 220(!!!) ukrainian soldiers.
220... 2 girls...

[Sangoma]

Fat Cat, before you go mad and start accusing me of pro-Soviet sympathies, this is another illustration of how complicated the issue is.

FLASHPOINT IN UKRAINE

Excerpt from Amazon:

Excerpt. © Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved.

The Washington-sponsored coup in Kiev is a reckless act. Such irresponsibility on the part of the US government should alarm the entire world. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US government has been raising the strategic threat that Washington poses to Russia. The US government violated its agreement not to take NATO into Eastern Europe. The US government withdrew from the ABM treaty. The US government arranged with Poland to place US anti-ballistic missile bases on Russia's border. The US changed its war doctrine to permit pre-emptive nuclear attack. The US government financed "color revolutions" in Georgia and Ukraine, former constituent parts of both Russia and the Soviet Union. The US government ignored Russia and attacked and dismembered Serbia. The US government trained and equipped the Georgian military and encouraged Georgia to attack the Russian peacekeeping force in South Ossetia. And now Washington has overthrown the democratically elected government of Ukraine and installed a puppet government. Washington's Kiev coup is a direct strategic threat to Russia. Ukraine was long part of Russia and the Soviet Union. Indeed, southern and eastern parts of Ukraine are former territories of Russia that Soviet governments added to Ukraine for various reasons. Crimea, overwhelmingly Russian, was stuck into Ukraine in 1954 by Khrushchev. Khrushchev did not include Sevastopol, the site of Russia's Black Sea fleet, when he transferred Crimea to Ukraine. Sevastopol was transferred to Ukraine by US pressure when the Soviet Union broke apart and Ukraine emerged as an independent country. In exchange, Russia was given a lease on the naval base until 2042. The lease permits 25,000 troops and specified numbers of military aircraft, tanks, and artillery in Crimea. The 16,000 Russian troops that the White House and presstitute media intentionally misreported as an invasion force were already present in Crimea under terms of the lease agreement. Washington either overlooked or worked with the Russophobic ultra-nationalist groups in western Ukraine who sport Nazi emblems and speak of killing Russians and Jews. Washington used its funded NGOs ($5 billion according to Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland at the National Press Club in December 2013) to begin street protests when the elected Ukrainian government turned down the offer to join the European Union. Excerpt from Paul Craig Roberts contribution