The couch thread

[Anon]

What's with all the ingredients?

[Turdacious]

What's with all the ingredients?

Classic scientifical disposal method.

[Gin Master]

What's with all the ingredients?

Classic scientifical disposal method.

Gil Grissom would still find you.







But no jury would convict you.

[POD]

Ok, so who here wants to be the one to volunteer to bring down CrossFit Inc.?

We're going to need you to lay off exercise for about 6 months entirely, then walk into a local affiliate gym on a day they're doing "Cindy" and go with the jumping pull-up substitution for kipping pull-ups. Get at least 20 rounds and there's a chance you'll get a nice case of rhabdo in the arms. Make sure the trainers and trainees are pushing you to continue in the last minutes, even when you audibly say that you don't want to. It shouldn't be hard to find an enthusiastic affiliate that'll do that. If they're recording the workout that day for their YouTube channel, even better. Then make sure to aim your lawsuit not just at the affiliate, but at CrossFit Inc. and Glassman himself.

Of course, the fact that I already said this would probably destroy your case as the plaintiff if brought up in court, but you could always argue that the encouragement from the trainers and the pressure of having a failure performance put on camera manipulated you psychologically.

If you don't want rhabdo you could also try:
- breaking your wrist on a kettlebell snatch (bad coaching)
- falling off a pull-up bar when the galvanized threading on their homemade bar wears through and breaks as you kip (might take some sabotage)
- getting a blood-transmitted disease by ripping a callus on their pull-up bars (you'd have to rip shortly after Dirt Diva did the same)

The choice is yours - we just need a volunteer!

[Shafpocalypse Now]

The blood on the bars if fucking unacceptable. That is a standard across every serious athletic facility in the country and across damn near every other training facility in the country.

[WildGorillaMan]

Douchebaggery of the highest order: if you're incapable of even picking a caber, let alone turning it, be a dumbass and OHS it in public.




There's a reason why that's not a Heavy Games event: it's retarded.

[Trebuchet]

There's a reason why that's not a Heavy Games event: it's retarded.

There's a reason why that's not a Heavy Games event: it's balsa wood.

[Mountebank]

Patrick, the Heeb Hammah laid it all out for the FTC to go after the GWF...

Out of curiosity, does Crossfit license trainers or gyms at a specific site to use the Crossfit name?

Yes, depending on the definition of license, if it is roughly "a legal document giving official permission to do something", then definitely. See this page, where it says:

On acceptance of your application, we license use of the name "CrossFit" for a $2000 annually renewable fee.

"Affiliate" gyms have to pay for the right to license the name. Attendees of the @F Level 1 "cert" can say they are "@F Certified", but they start getting in hot water with HQ if they start charging $$ for "@F classes" or "@F training".

Are there quality control aspects? [No.] Does someone inspect the gym? [Not from @FHQ, they are all pretty much independent unless they leave the church too far or for too long.] Is there a manual to be followed? [No, not in terms of running the business, there is only the Level 1 "cert" where anyone of any (lack of) knowledge level can come and learn some of their standard movements and pass around STDs in their off-hours. This "cert" has no accreditation outside of the @F church whatsoever.] Do inspectors come out and check on trainers in practice? [No.] Are there limits on non-certified people teaching? [Yes, it seems this is a more recent addition. It sells a crapload more "certs".]

Here's a primer. This involves very complex areas of law, but I practice and write in the franchise area and I also work with some training organizations. Thus I find it interesting.

1. Definition of a franchise. Franchises are regulated by the federal government, but the federal government steps in only if significant fraudulent activity exists. Roughly half the states have a franchise law and most that don't have a business opportuinity laws. Each of them defines franchise or a business opportunity. These statutes give individuals or companies a right to sue, and some states will pursue enforcement actions against violators. The Federal Trade Commission definition of franchise is a common definition. Under the FTC definition (if you want to look it up, 16 CFR 436.2a) a franchise generally exists when (i) the franchisee pays the franchisor for (ii) the right to sell goods or services under the franchisor's trademark and (iii) the franchisor exerts a "significant degree of control" over or gives "significant assistance" to the franchisee's "method of operation." In simpler terms, a franchise is licensing a trademark and providing a business system in exchange for money.

@F charges "affiliates" $2k a year for the right to sell under the banner
@F maintains a website for "affiliates"
@F hosts an "affiliate gathering" every year
@F advertises a $5k marketing/business seminar put on by one of their "affiliates"
@F has articles on running an @F business in their e-journal, subscription is included in "affiliation"

2. Avoiding the franchise laws. It's not easy avoiding the franchise and business opportunity laws, especially if you operate in many states. You can avoid payment or, in some cases, defer or avoid payment. Or you can avoid control or assistance - for example a certification involves payment and allows the certified trainer to say "XXX-certified." XXX is a trade name. But the certifying body doesn't significantly control or assist the certified trainer's business. If Cross Fit offers significant assistance (for example, specified supplies, a marketing plan, advertising) or control, it's in a risky area.

See above, but I'm sure there's more that a little ferreting would find out. There are affiliates in all but two states. They do "certify" (pfft, there is no pass/fail at a Level 1 "cert") and allow a trainer to say they are "@F certified", but a facility must become an "affiliate" to use the name.

3. Naked licensing. If you license a mark, and don't police it's use to make sure it denotes a certain quality and type of service or product, you have a naked license, and the law will deem it abandoned. This is a consumer protection provision. You should expect the same Big Mac in whatever McDonald's you visit. If Cross Fit is not policing the quality of the services associated with its mark, it risks the mark being deemed abandoned.

Then they are butt nekkid.

4. Trainer liability. My sense is that most trainers can find insurance, especially if they have certain certifications and follow safe practice rules and use disclaimers of liability. If you are certified, though, in a training methodology that promotes puking and complex weightlifting movements under fatigue, I'd guess that insurance companies would start to issue endorsements to their policies to say they don't cover this type of training or that some companies would refuse to insure crossfit facilities.

Individual trainers who have other (accredited) certifications have no trouble getting insurance. Since @F is not accredited in any way/shape/form, they would have trouble getting insurance on that alone. The big reason for the RRG is that the facilities cannot acquire insurance themselves and the insurance companies have caught wind of the liability stink of @F.

5. Fanchise insurance. Some franchisors can provide system-wide insurance because they carefully monitor the quality of their product. Thus the insurer can reasonably underwrite the risk and can ask the franchisor to insitute certain training and safeguards if it wants. If Crossfit is not significantly policing the quality of its licensee's services and the fitness of the places of business, and if it does not promote reasonable safety principles, no insurance company aware of what's going on would take the risk as there would be no way to underwrite it (that is, to make a reasonable risk/benefit calculation).

They don't monitor the facilities, they don't promote safety principles (quite the opposite). I think most insurance companies in that area have already done a risk/benefit ratio and @F failed miserably. The GWF's quotes about the potential for @F to kill people really didn't help the case much.

6. Cooperative self-insurance. Many large insurance companies are cooperatives (for example, fraternal benfit socities). Also, many groups are large enough and controlled enough to bind together to form a self-insured insurance cooperative with members covering certain losses, and then they have a cooperative catastrophic umbrella policy. If Cross-Fit does not police all its licensees, a cooperative faces the same risk that an insurance company would face. How do you assess the risk? How much are premiums? Is there certain conduct that disqualifies coverage -- if so, what about puking? Then there's the whole issue of governance. Insurance coverage is a very complex business to run. You need decisions on when to cover, who to hire as lawyer, how much to pay lawyers, when to settle, who decides on settlement, how to protect against bad faith suits if you don't settle, procuring a catastrophic umbrella, investing premiums, updating coverage policy, etc. There are lots of ways to fail.

@FHQ has stated that they are not in charge of the RRG. I don't believe their unwashed masses will go for something that isn't controlled by the GWF.

As you can see, a lot of these issues are at cross-purposes.

Yes, it will be quite the fall to watch.

I'm no lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

[Anon]

What's with all the ingredients?

Classic scientifical disposal method.

Shit, just post a WOD that involves a pool, a couple of kettlebells over 20KG and handcuffs, that will cull the herd.

[Holland Oates]

And now for your viewing pleasure.



Enlarge
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/JenniOrr.jpg

I say GAWDDAMN!

[Hebrew Hammer]

RQ's answers are interesting. As to franchise and business opportunity laws, CF is probably courting risk. But, as a practical matter, it may be a case of "no harm, no foul." $2000 for affiliation is very fair in terms of the marketing value. CF has built up incredible marketing and presence and, apart from the reckless promotion of unsafe practices, its website offers a wealth of knowledge and support. The FTC and the handful of states that actively monitor franchises for compliance probably wouldn't get too worked up over this as there are major fraudsters out there taking far more money and engaging in deceptive or unacceptable practices. With limited resources, regulators tend to focus on the serious fraudsters.

The practical problem CF faces is quality control, a risk of having a naked license, and the insurability/liability problem that stems from no quality control coupled with reckless rhabdo-puking (and probably other) promotion.

The legal issues would probably be manageable if CF got rid of the reckless practices and incorporated safety promotion, which it could easily do without losing the CF spirit and swagger. Given how successful the business is, CF would be smart to make the changes.

[TerryB]

The CF-RRG is another branch of our community, designed to protect us from potentially devastating lawsuits or attacks against both our program and our trainers and affiliates.

Who will protect them from the liabilities created by all the stupid shit Couch does and says?

[Mountebank]

HH,
Who deems the license naked? Is that an FTC issue? When/why would they do that?

[Gin Master]

RQ's answers are interesting. As to franchise and business opportunity laws, CF is probably courting risk. But, as a practical matter, it may be a case of "no harm, no foul." $2000 for affiliation is very fair in terms of the marketing value. CF has built up incredible marketing and presence and, apart from the reckless promotion of unsafe practices, its website offers a wealth of knowledge and support. The FTC and the handful of states that actively monitor franchises for compliance probably wouldn't get too worked up over this as there are major fraudsters out there taking far more money and engaging in deceptive or unacceptable practices. With limited resources, regulators tend to focus on the serious fraudsters.

The practical problem CF faces is quality control, a risk of having a naked license, and the insurability/liability problem that stems from no quality control coupled with reckless rhabdo-puking (and probably other) promotion.

The legal issues would probably be manageable if CF got rid of the reckless practices and incorporated safety promotion, which it could easily do without losing the CF spirit and swagger. Given how successful the business is, CF would be smart to make the changes.

Based on RQ's answers and your analysis, it seems that the legal setup is like an independent contractor agreement (no equipment provided, no control by HQ, no scheduling).

CF's biggest problem as a business concern is the fact that there are NO business people involved. Couch has simply promoted all his oldest drinking buddies into key positions in the company. In other words, a Santa Cruz high school dropout can earn a reasonably good salary so long as long as she shares her gin and flashes her tits.

Who will protect them from the liabilities created by all the stupid shit Couch does and says?

Couch is trying. He's just missing a couple key concepts.

[Hebrew Hammer]

HH,
Who deems the license naked? Is that an FTC issue? When/why would they do that?

Someone could challenge the name at the US Patent and Trademark Office, which is a difficult road to travel down. Or someone could use the name without a license and, if sued, raise the defense that the the mark has been abandoned by naked license.

[TerryB]

Dirt Diva's Daily Devotional:

Learn to enjoy every minute of your life. Be happy now. Don’t wait for something outside of yourself to make you happy in the future. Think how really precious is the time you have to spend, whether it’s at work or with your family.

[Anon]

Dirt Diva's Daily Devotional:

Learn to enjoy every minute of your life. Be happy now. Don’t wait for something outside of yourself to make you happy in the future. Think how really precious is the time you have to spend, whether it’s at work or with your family.

very spiritual, I hope she eventually finds happiness.

[Shapecharge]

Many years ago I was at a friend's house. We smoked a little weed and had a few beers. Both of us were fairly stoned and his wife volunteered to go pick up some more beer and something to eat. She's gone no more than about ten minutes then comes running back into the house crying. What's wrong? She ran into a hummingbird in her car. Now a hummingbird that's been working out on steroids, HGH, and creatine is only about 2 inches long but sure enough, I walk outside and there the little guy is, smashed into the grill. She felt the hummingbird's spirit go through her. Her and the husband must now pray and meditate over the lost hummingbird. I was asked to join but my buzz was gone and I was hungry. The Diva could very well be this chick.

[Anon]

Many years ago I was at a friend's house. We smoked a little weed and had a few beers. Both of us were fairly stoned and his wife volunteered to go pick up some more beer and something to eat. She's gone no more than about ten minutes then comes running back into the house crying. What's wrong? She ran into a hummingbird in her car. Now a hummingbird that's been working out on steroids, HGH, and creatine is only about 2 inches long but sure enough, I walk outside and there the little guy is, smashed into the grill. She felt the hummingbird's spirit go through her. Her and the husband must now pray and meditate over the lost hummingbird. I was asked to join but my buzz was gone and I was hungry. The Diva could very well be this chick.

I thought those little fuckers were quicker than that. RIP little burd.

[CultBuster]

We are actually glad to have them there to attract the kinds of people that wouldn't fit in at our gym anyway. I guess I don't see why we can't all be friends...but maybe I am naive.

Who are the "wrong" people for xfit? Blacks? Gays? Free Thinkers?
This guy is the right guy?

Derek Cedarbaum
Member

Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Santa Barbara CA
Posts: 6 Passion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Passion. It’s a f**king b*tch. My passion, easy to say, is CrossFit. Passion is something, anything that someone has a strong emotion over. In lation though, it means to suffer or endure, from the word patior. So passion must mean anything, person, or being that you are willing to suffer for, or endure some kind of pain for, because the outcome is worth it. And this leads me to my case in point.

Saturday I decided to go for the “Elizabeth” workout of the day. For you CrossFitters, you know what that means, everybody else, read a f**kin’ book. As with most hard workouts, I put a garbage can near me incase I need to throw up. Most of you might think, ew why would you be willing to do that? Well, passion. I am willing to endure a bit of pain and suffering because I know the feeling after and the position I get myself to 6 months or 2 years down the road is worth a little sacrifice. But during my workout, some f**k that works in the gym told me that I can’t have that garbage bin there. I tell him that it’s for him, and that I would prefer to throw up in a garbage bin, than on a floor for everyone to see. This way I can take the garbage bag out and get rid of the evidence immediately so that no one must smell that. He then proceeds to tell me that it is against the rules to throw up and that I am not allowed to workout if that is what I want to do. Want to do? Are you f*cking serious? Does it look like I am a masochist or buleimic? No. I explain to him that I know what I am doing and that it is not dangerous and that this is for his sake and he cannot tell me how hard to push myself and that a manager once told me it was okay, which is the truth. He then walks away. Ironically, I happened to throw up on that day of all days. Second time since starting CrossFit. I knew there was a good chance of it though since “Elizabeth” is one of the most demanding workouts I have ever done. I couldn’t even finish it, I am ashamed to say. But, there’s always next time.

Sitting at home, stirring in a moody abyss of failure, I decided to head back to the gym about three hours later, demanding myself to finish a workout since my ***** *** failed the last one. And of course, upon entering the gym, the f*cker that tried telling me off earlier on was now at the front desk where you give your ID to enter the complex. He looks at me, looks at my ID, then looks at me again like I am some g*ddamn criminal, and then turns to the girl to his side that he is working with and says, “This is the kid that threw up earlier,” with this f*cking attitude like what I did was so terrible. I looked at this kid like, are you f*cking kidding me? I poured my heart and soul into that garbage bin, and you are standing there with your skinny, flabby *** trying to belittle me for what? For causing a small disturbance in your busy life as gym boy just standing around doing nothing? He didn’t even take the garbage out, a janitor did. I feel bad for the janitor, but this f*ck has nothing to b*tch about. The girl then says to me that I really shouldn’t have done that, because it is unsanitary, and they had to spray down the whole garbage can and that I needed to speak with one of the gym managers right away. I understand the unsanitary part. But common, it was into an industrial garbage bag that is meant to trap germs in it, and I offered to take the garbage bag out immediately. I told the manager this and he further explained to me what I was doing was dangerous. Then I decided to explain to him that it’s not dangerous to do that every now and then, meaning if it happens every few months, so be it.

The reason behind the throwing up, I then explain is as follows: The muscles in one’s body usually takes in about 20-25% of the body’s blood from the cardiac system. During intense exercise, capillaries open up, and take in about 80-85% of the blood that your body circulates. The blood comes from systems such as your liver, kidneys, and gastrointestinal system, and during intense exercise, your skin. It is what causes one to become nauseus, and after a workout that, mixed with the gasping for air causes a reflux that involves heaving, and sometimes throwing up. The “fitness” manager, and I put that in parentheses because he doesn’t know **** about fitness, tells me that what I do, CrossFit, is dangerous and will not be tolerated in the gym.

I go on to reassure him that he probably knows more than the Navy Seals and Olympic gym coaches do not know as much as him, and he is most definitely right. I then tell him that passing out is from another system failure. This is from a lack of oxygen to the brain. During intense exercise, your brain actually gets about 20-30% more oxygen, and that people pass out from not breathing enough, or properly. This was not my issue, since I threw up 10 minutes after my workout when I had already caught my breathe, and that maybe I made a mistake by getting up too soon and drinking my protein shake (which I unfortunately lost in the process of throwing up, ew, I know ladies). I again reassured him that what I was doing was not dangerous, and I knew what I was doing, and he didn’t know **** from a melted chocolate bar. I was then told that I had to speak to the head building manager, and until then I had to “take it easy.” Psh. When is this manager going to be back? In 5 days. Yea f*cking right. This guy is telling me that I need to put my life on hold so the 2% chance of me throwing up doesn’t happen. Point me in the direction of the dumpster and some disinfectant spray. I tell him that this is my life and that I don’t go out, and that’s why I am at the gym on a Saturday at 9PM, and that it wasn’t my fault you don’t have a life and decide to hang out with kids 10 years younger than you after your shift has ended because you don’t have any friends. Well, I didn’t really say that, but I did tell him CrossFit is my life, and I push myself to achieve a greatness only I care about. He tells me “to each his own,” in a superior, “I run sh*t here” tone and walked away. I wanted to jump over the counter and smash his face into the used towels bin. But I don’t wana lose my gym membership so I walk away slightly embarrassed that now everyone at the gym knows I’m the guy who “likes” to throw up at the gym like some little buleimic girl.

But as I was working out, I realized something. They aren’t going to kick me out for having a desire to achieve greatness. They aren’t going to ask me to give up my passion. And even if they do, I will just laugh and keep on going, because I’m not letting anyone get in the way of my Fran time! In all honesty though, maybe this story is a bit long and weird and gross. But you all need to know that you can do what you are passionate about, and don’t give two sh*ts about what the person next to you thinks. If wearing women’s clothes in public makes you feel better as who you are as a person, maybe you are a weird freak, but reading this you shouldn’t care what I think and you should keep doing it. Know you will have to suffer a bit to get the outcome you desire. That’s what passion is about. Suffering others disparaging opinions about you. I walk into the gym for one reason. It isn’t so that I can be more athletic and stronger than the guys around me at the gym. It’s to make myself stronger and stronger willed in a way that others don’t have the willpower to get to. It isn’t to brag, it’s just that getting to that point is not easy. It is anything but easy. Sometimes you throw up, and you know you are going to. You know that before you even start working out. You stand there and look in the mirror and say, in 20 minutes I will be over that garbage bin, gasping for air, dry heaving, which is quite painful, and then puke my brains out, which is just aweful and painful, especially when all 3 of those things are mixed together. That fear before the workout, plus the suffering one goes through during that workout, plus the pain afterwards amounts up to the courage one has. Courage is, as a wise man one said, and I’m paraphrasing here, “not the fear itself of a situation, but the ability of someone to act in the face of fear.” Maybe it seems corny, and a bit cheesy all of this sh*t, but what you do inside a gym can define who you are outside of one.

And I sure as **** am not going to let some “fitness” manager tell me who the F*ck I am. Would you?

I have worked in gyms, and I would have beat this fucktards ass!

[Mountebank]

This was not my issue, since I threw up 10 minutes after my workout when I had already caught my breathe, and that maybe I made a mistake by getting up too soon and drinking my protein shake...

Seriously. It would almost be funny if it wasn't so stupid.

[Crust Bucket]

Her and the husband must now pray and meditate over the lost hummingbird. I was asked to join but my buzz was gone and I was hungry. The Diva could very well be this chick.

Jeezus Shapely I hope you took that fucker out behind the shed and introduced him to Mr. Knuckles and not Mr. Peter.

[POD]

Who are the "wrong" people for xfit? Blacks? Gays? Free Thinkers?

Did you forget about the "Gay CrossFitters" thread?

Derek Cedarbaum
Member
[... a rant...]

Is it mentally healthy to obsess this much over a workout?


Also, $20 says he scaled down the C&J's to at most 115lbs. Any takers?

[Anon]

Fuck I cannot even get past line three...WHO CARES!

[Crust Bucket]

Fuck trying to read that
I realize FuckFit causes OCD as much as KookBalls but goddamn it stop the madness already