The couch thread

Kraj · Post by **Kraj** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:02 pm

The Bastard Son of the Shafman wrote:Hahahah.

The Sumo DL High pull is a garbage movement.

Fucking absolute garbage.

In their heyday, the Soviet national team trained EXCLUSIVELY in sumo deads. It was the only movement they did for months at a time. It's the real deal.

clem · Post by **clem** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:18 pm

protobuilder wrote:And this poor bastard is just all kinds of in the dark, punch drunk with Kool-Aid-isms.

http://board.crossfit.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Shane,

These movements were chosen because they are universal motor recruitment patterns. First, they are a progression on each other, that I won't explain since Frederic did such a good job. Bottom line is that you can't clean until you can Dead lift and front squat. As far as the pressing movements being the same with different levels of hip involvement, think of each one in the progression as a more efficient means to the same end as the one before. The most efficient way (and maybe the only way by proxy of the size of the object to be lifted) to get something from chest to overhead is the Push Jerk, and putting things overhead for one reason or another is important.

I said that these movements are universal motor recruitment patterns. Basically what that means is that if you desire to get better at things that involve the human body, you need to do these things well. If you want to jump high or far, you need to squat, clean and dead lift. If you want to run fast... same. As far as the over head stuff goes, they illicit some of the strongest contractions of the core and require enormous amounts of midline stabilization. That translates to all of sport.

The Sumo Dead Lift High Pull: This movement is a precursor to the clean. It teaches proper kinetic chain when taking something from the ground to the chest. It is also a more functional version of the clean (in a manner of speaking, I know there is no drop under or third pull). Think about it like this: if your buddy gets shot in the streets of Iraq are you going to run him through with a bar so you can clean him up to your shoulder, or are you going to straddle him with your hands inside of your feet, violently extend your hips and then drop under him?
Fuck, that last one had me laughing until I cried.

So this guy is going to violently clean his 180lb buddy with 50lb of gear on both their bodies? Obviously this guy has never lifted a casualty in his life.

Sofa King · Post by **Sofa King** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:48 pm

Way back when, a feller named Chris Shugart said something like, "any trainer can give you a set of exercises that will make you sweat; big deal." He said that about @fit in response to TC Luoma's famous column which beget the entire @fit/Dan John shitstorm.

I think of the SDLHP when I think of movements that simply "make you sweat."

I also remember Eric Cressey, who has a little more credibility than either Couch or Shugart, saying that the standing row was one of the worst (if not thee worst) movements for the shoulder area. The last half of the SDLHP is nothing more than a bad standing row.

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:56 pm

clem wrote:So this guy is going to violently clean his 180lb buddy with 50lb of gear on both their bodies?

No, he's going to sumo high pull him. I guess at the top of the pull, he just releases him or ??? Maybe the next Cert teaches you how to continental your buddy to your shoulder.

Kraj · Post by **Kraj** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:59 pm

Hey, you guys can rag on the sumo deadlift all you want but the next time you have to straddle an elevator shaft and pull up the elevator to keep it from plummeting 50 floors with your mother and fiance inside, you'll wish you had worked on it a little more.

Crust Bucket · Post by **Crust Bucket** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:13 pm

Kraj wrote:the next time you have to straddle an elevator shaft and pull up the elevator to keep it from plummeting 50 floors with your mother and fiance inside, you'll wish you had worked on it a little more.

Shit if that's the case I'll just let em fall and watch with amazement.

tough old man · Post by **tough old man** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:19 pm

1) Grab "Reinforced Drag Handle "
2) Pull like hell.

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:21 pm

tough old man wrote:1) Grab "Reinforced Drag Handle "
2) Pull like hell.

Any of Steve Justa's workouts would prepare you better for this sort of "functional" movement.

Botototo · Post by **Botototo** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:33 pm

Fuck the stupid fucking sumo high pull.

Hey, more early arm bend, now THAT'S what CF really needs!

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:32 pm

Brandon Oto wrote:Fuck the stupid fucking sumo high pull.
Hey, more early arm bend, now THAT'S what CF really needs!

On that note, from Rip himself:
http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1731&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark Rippetoe wrote:You're right, anything that teaches people to lift the bar with bent arms or by using an arm bend will make it harder to teach those people to clean and snatch with straight arms. Upright rows and to a lesser extent barbell rows have fucked up many a clean before it even had a chance to get learned.

I'm pretty sure there is a simple explanation for the creation/inclusion of the SDHP in the @F arsenal. Here it is...

Teaching cleans isn't easy, sure as shit isn't learned by uncoordinated, inexperienced couches themselves in a weekend cert. The unwashed masses still need a "high power output"

(pffft) exercise that is "functional" and "universal"...enter the SDHP. Now the early arm bend is easily excused, poor wrist flexibility and thoracic mobility in the rack position become non-issues, and we have an exercise that will really fuck up the shoulder (which makes it @F acceptable!).

Then the poor retarded kids get to graduate to the padded ball so they don't hurt themselves.

See? It all makes sense...

Botototo · Post by **Botototo** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:46 pm

Using the SDHP as a teaching progression for the clean is like using getting shot as a teaching progression for self defense.

Sofa King · Post by **Sofa King** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:36 pm

Brandon Oto wrote:Using the SDHP as a teaching progression for the clean is like using getting shot as a teaching progression for self defense.

I am amazed at the accuracy of your analogy. (alliteration unintentional)

GoDogGo! · Post by **GoDogGo!** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:57 pm

Hey Shaf, why the thruster hate? Is it only the bouncing off a ball @Fit version you hate, or all thrusters? I sometimes do KB ones (no ball, thanks) for HIIT.

sanchezero · Post by **sanchezero** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:04 pm

yeah! i love thrusters. along with burpees and 400m sprints, i think they make up some of the most effective conditioning drills around.

Kraj · Post by **Kraj** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:13 pm

sanchezero wrote:yeah! i love thrusters. along with burpees and 400m sprints, i think they make up some of the most effective conditioning drills around.

Not as much as punching a midget in the gut for time.

Dunn · Post by **Dunn** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:31 pm

Sofa King wrote:I am amazed at the accuracy of your analogy. (alliteration unintentional)

=D> =D> =D>
Absolutely astounding.

Anon · Post by **Anon** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:31 am

Kraj wrote:Hey, you guys can rag on the sumo deadlift all you want but the next time you have to straddle an elevator shaft and pull up the elevator to keep it from plummeting 50 floors with your mother and fiance inside, you'll wish you had worked on it a little more.

I rely exclusively on "The Six Pack Hold" when it comes to these damsel in distress senerios, ok, well maybe not so much with mom.

dead man walking · Post by **dead man walking** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:08 am

cool-aid swillers talking smack about mike caviston, a terrific athlete and not a cultist.

anyone know some guy named john brown, self-important loudmouth?

Holy Cow · Post by **Holy Cow** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:18 am

Is there genuine dissent in the ranks?

Caviston, the Seal's trainer, is a beast. The disrespect from an x-fitter is laughable.

Would I want to be trained by a world record holder or a fat man with a wig?
Comment #16 - Posted by: chainsaw at April 24, 2009 7:03 PM

LoL

=D>

And some more

I know Mike Caviston. He's an exceptional athlete. His own training showed unreal dedication. And he's a terrific teacher.

He is also strong-willed and independent. He's no kool-aid drinker, which no doubt explains some hostile comments here.
Comment #29 - Posted by: old bones at April 24, 2009 8:05 PM

Holy Cow · Post by **Holy Cow** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:25 am

Attila the Hungry wrote:cool-aid swillers talking smack about mike caviston, a terrific athlete and not a cultist.

anyone know some guy named john brown, self-important loudmouth?

For the sake of context and posterity:

Video: http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/SEAL ... tVideo.mov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you don't/can't watch it, the video has nothing to do with deadlifts. The guy talks about teams of soldiers carrying/exercising with a ~200 lb. log for two hours, and he tilts one up at the end of the video. That prompted this response:

EP, the point of the video is that the gentleman responsible for the PT programming at the Naval Special Warfare Center just did what he would call a dead lift, but really it was more like a car wreck. It was funny that he was talking about "core strength" when it was apparent that he didn't have the strength or awareness to maintain spinal extension and protect his back.

I was around when this guy was hired on, I even sat at a cert that Coach put on for SQT students and staff that this guy sat in on and he basically spent the entire time trying to find a way to discredit Coach... he was so short sighted that he didn't realize that in his attempt he removed all personal credibility that he may have had all within his first week on the job... by the way, I think he came from a rowing background... nothing against the rowing community, I love them, but I don't think this guy can speak intelligently about training men that will have to carry 170 pounds of gear, and maybe a buddy wearing the same load, under fire...
I am guessing this was a Castro find... I love that guy!
Comment #10 - Posted by: john brown at April 24, 2009 6:37 PM

Tackleberry · Post by **Tackleberry** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:26 am

Crossfit exploiting dead soldiers again. This time at http://www.crossfitfootball.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A WAD named after Pat Tillman.

From the comments.

11. Was Mr. Tillman a crossfitter? Does his family know of and endorse your naming a workout after him?
Comment by Roni Gram — April 23, 2009 at 11:43pm

13. Roni - That is a weird statement. I dont know if he CrossFitted...i would imagine it would have been right up his alley though. I played against Pat in college and in the NFL. The WOD was suggested by a friend that the he served with and i think he would have liked it. He might not have CrossFitted but he was a football player and a hero. Those are my only requirements for a Hero WOD.
Comment by John — April 24, 2009 at 12:28am

Holy Cow · Post by **Holy Cow** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:33 am

Hey Dingleberry, introduce yourself in the FSF.

Kraj · Post by **Kraj** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:00 am

Serious question:

Has CrossFit ever produced an actual Navy SEAL candidate? I mean, has there ever been some guy who openly trained in CrossFit and then signed up for the SEALs? I'm wondering if such a thing happened and if so, did he tear shit up like most Crossfitters imagine he would or did he get pussywhipped.

BTW, what's with that JB douche talking shit about the Navy SEALs' instructor? His deadlift was perfectly fine. Someone send them a video of Karelin lifting an opponent off the mat with a totally curved spine and ask them how many PVC pipes it takes to weigh as much as a 300# squirming wrestler. No doubt they'll rag on him for his form.

Anon · Post by **Anon** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:16 am

navyseals.com post a crossfit inspired workout everyday under the "get seal fit" drop down menu. They are pretty hardcore. My buddy and I use them as a supplement on rest days some time.

I dont know if it is just me, but the dude, Mike Caviston, I got a vibe from the video that he thinks he is better then everyone else and knows all there is to know about fitness. Kind of going along with what John was saying. I think that is one of the worst attitudes you can have in the Personal Training world. But hey, I could just be guessing, maybe he is a really nice guy.

Hope everyone enjoys the rest day. The last three days was an grueling adventure for me!

Comment #14 - Posted by: Flower Chalk Bag M/24/185/67" at April 24, 2009 6:59 PM

LOL @ BOLD TEXT

POD · Post by **POD** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:16 am

Albany CrossFit's interpretation of the log pick-up:
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-affiliates/2 ... 90425.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IGX

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