IGX

Mike Caviston basher wrote:by the way, I think he came from a rowing background... nothing against the rowing community, I love them, but I don't think this guy can speak intelligently about training men that will have to carry 170 pounds of gear, and maybe a buddy wearing the same load, under fire...

protobuilder wrote:

Mike Caviston basher wrote:by the way, I think he came from a rowing background... nothing against the rowing community, I love them, but I don't think this guy can speak intelligently about training men that will have to carry 170 pounds of gear, and maybe a buddy wearing the same load, under fire...

Enter Couch...

Joe wrote:

I dont know if it is just me, but the dude, Mike Caviston, I got a vibe from the video that he thinks he is better then everyone else and knows all there is to know about fitness. Kind of going along with what John was saying. I think that is one of the worst attitudes you can have in the Personal Training world.

Joe wrote:

navyseals.com post a crossfit inspired workout everyday under the "get seal fit" drop down menu. They are pretty hardcore. My buddy and I use them as a supplement on rest days some time.

I dont know if it is just me, but the dude, Mike Caviston, I got a vibe from the video that he thinks he is better then everyone else and knows all there is to know about fitness. Kind of going along with what John was saying. I think that is one of the worst attitudes you can have in the Personal Training world. But hey, I could just be guessing, maybe he is a really nice guy.

Hope everyone enjoys the rest day. The last three days was an grueling adventure for me!

Comment #14 - Posted by: Flower Chalk Bag M/24/185/67" at April 24, 2009 6:59 PM

LOL @ BOLD TEXT

I put my full trust in HQ. This is what Greg Glassman decided he wanted. Who is going to step up and tell the guy he doesn't know what he is doing? The man is one of the smartest in the fittness industry.

T200 wrote:Regarding the possible rigging of the @Fit Gaymes qualifiers:

I put my full trust in HQ. This is what Greg Glassman decided he wanted. Who is going to step up and tell the guy he doesn't know what he is doing? The man is one of the smartest in the fittness industry.

Where's that cult thing again?

And I knew stuff that was going to occur at the Gaymes and am in now way even affiliated with @Fit. Surely people involved knew shit.

JB wrote:

"he basically spent the entire time trying to find a way to discredit Coach"

So he dissed Glassman and this is payback.

And you conlude your post with a reference to "integrity." Spare us the sanctimony.

Comment #65 - Posted by: old bones at April 25, 2009 6:21 AM

Old Bones,

Mike Caviston has repeatedly stated that "CrossFit is the leading cause of injuries in the Teams", but when confronted by Team guys he could neither offer a source for his claim nor could he name a single CF casualty. The BUD/S record shows indisputably that there were no PT injuries associated with CF in what is one of the better tests of CF implementation to date. I think Mr. Calviston lied, ie, his statements are known to him to be false.

Mike Caviston has complained to the Navy that we are advertising that the Navy has endorsed CF. Not only is this entirely untrue, but I neither want nor need Navy endorsement. I WOULD NOT TAKE US Navy endorsement were it offered. The Navy brand is tainted by absurd alliances in the fitness industry and I'd prefer no association with these failed and failing fitness efforts. My commitment is to the shooter/sailor/soldier not the organization. His complaint about us claiming Navy endorsement is, I believe, another example of Mike Caviston lying - deliberately making claims he knows to be false. Perhaps he's not lying, but his desperation to find relevance in the face of the CrossFit groundswell at BUD/S has motivated a reckless disregard for the truth.

It obviously seems unusual, even disreputable, to many of you that we'd take on a seemingly swell guy like Mr. Caviston for what probably seems like no apparent reason. Truth is there are thousands of bad deadlifts to be found on the Net, but this is a very special case.

Here's what up. I've got a civilian fitness "expert", like myself, holding contract with the Navy, protecting his rice bowl, not with superior programming and attendant results/adaptations but with lies and distortions while his own skills, knowledge, efforts, and results are not only substantially below industry standards but recklessly irresponsible.

Mr. Calviston took our L1 cert and struggled through the whole thing. He is not, nor should he be a teacher of human movement. It was clear he'd never squatted, deadlifted, cleaned, or pressed. It was also perfectly clear that he'd never seen these exercises taught before. That's OK, everyone has to start somewhere, but when you add to this the fact that he is publicly demonstrating on public websites technique for the deadlift (it's dumb to suggest that this video is not a deadlift demo, Matt from Oz) depicting profoundly unsound and unsafe biomechanics while he repeatedly and falsely distorts the CF record, I have an obligation to expose the man. I've sat on this for more than a year and the less I say, the more I ignore the lies and attacks, the more frequent and egregious they become. This is a clear example of dishonest and unprofessional conduct being amplified and encouraged by a lack of defending response.

Let me be perfectly clear about this: teaching prospective BUD/S students, or anyone else, to pick up a log, or anything else, in this manner is dangerous. It is unprofessional. It is proof of inadequate training and education. This little bit of video is compelling and irrefutable evidence that the demonstrator does not understand the fundamentals and essentials of biomechanics. He needs more training, desperately, and immediately. He could also benefit from a course on business and general ethics.
Comment #77 - Posted by: couch at April 25, 2009 8:48 AM

Glassman,

Why am I not surprised that you again resort to attacking the ethics of others? Moral superiority for time is x-fit's tactical response to doubters.

I know Mike. He's terrific--as an athlete, a trainee, and a coach. He also does it.

Post some video of yourself. Shirtless, like the rest of the xfit crew. That will show us all we need to know.
Comment #78 - Posted by: old bones at April 25, 2009 9:12 AM

Old Bones,

That seeing me naked is more important to you than ethics or the facts of the dispute is a suprise to me and "shows us all we need to know" about you.

If Mr. Caviston wants to do a side-by-side, shirtless, deadlift demonstration with me as a charity for Wounded Warrior Foundation, count me in. We'll videotape the demonstration and then you and Mike can "both do it" together.

Comment #79 - Posted by: couch at April 25, 2009 9:29 AM

Tom Rawls (Old Bones),

Yes, you are correct, my point was to "ambush" (I prefer the word "expose") Mike Caviston for both incompetency and dishonesty. That you think this is unethical speaks to your lack of character. You have a strange sense of decorum that looks, to me, indistinguishable from cowardice. None of this would be important were the stakes so very high. I'll not explain the stakes to you, but the truth is Mr. Calviston is hindering, and dramatically, the potential of operator's physical capacity. There are a lot of people in the way of optimizing operator capacity, but very few doing it with lies and spurious charges of injury from CF.

What is sneaky about my attack? Should I have posted a warning first? How can there have been longstanding bad blood and now it's a sneak attack. Think, man, think.

Your attack on John Brown suggests that there's more in this for you than anything that can be addressed by fact or ethics. You're emotionally and irrationally committed to the defense of Mike Caviston.

Mike Caviston may very well have been trying to "discredit" me the entire time of the cert, but it was most assuredly something he kept from me. He sat through two days of seminar as I repeatedly asked him for inputs, and he offered, repeatedly, nothing. On Monday after I'd gone back up to Santa Cruz he started running his mouth. If he had objections he should have had the confidence and courage to articulate them then and there, or maybe even to send me some inputs at a later date after giving the material some consideration. He did not. If he really gave two-cents about the men he's charged to support, he'd engage me rather than making shit up and pushing it around to those not in a position to know or see what is really taking place. His whining about CF.com and several other websites where Team guys are turning to for training information rather than to his silly "official" site, again, is more evidence of his lack of professionalism and competence. Imagine whining to Navy brass that the men aren't going to your site but others and then concocting a series of lies to buttress your case.

When we were learning the deadlift with PVC Mr. Caviston's back was as rounded just as it is in the video. He didn't have the neuro-muscular control or flexibility to squat to parallel without raising his heels. He couldn't hold the deadlift set-up posture and maintain a lumbar curve. His erg performance was bested by several students who don't row other than when it is required for WOD's. His best clean, with PVC, was no more than a rounded back stand-up and curl. He could BARELY swim. None of this is a fault or character flaw, but to hold him up as either coach or athlete is silly. It was crushingly apparent that Mr. Calviston does not understand nor has been initiated in the fundamentals of human movement.

I understand, accept, and even welcome, my unpopularity among many of you unable to follow along with what is at stake here and why this is worth upsetting what might otherwise have been a kumbayaa hand-holding sing along fitness discussion. Oh well. Keep hating me, please. On the topic of combat fitness I cannot help but speak my mind loudly and clearly, just as you can neither follow the discussion nor appreciate principled stances. Pleepleeus, Old Bones, I not only appreciate your animosity, anger, and accept your inability to comprehend what's transpiring here, but I'd be made quite uncomfortable if I had your support or appreciation. It takes all kinds, and you are the kind I'm glad I'm not.

Comment #87 - Posted by: couch at April 25, 2009 11:02 AM

Nice videos from the qualifiers. The log video,however, was disappointing. Clearly its posting was nothing more than an adolescent attempt to stir up animosity toward some guy 99.999% of visitors to this site or any affiliate will ever encounter in any way in their lifetimes.

This video tells me nothing about this man, his athletic abilities or his teaching skills. Him struggling through a level 1 cert doesn't mean crap either.

Its a B-ll-Sh+t juvenile hit piece. Save the justification/rationalization. If you don't like the guy, get over it and move on. There, that's my Rest Day free speech contribution to the forum.

Comment #89 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 11:28 AM

Oh, I just realized coach called me out in his post. The old "You're too dumb to understand, boy I'm glad you don't support me" routine. I don't post all that often, but if you had the mind-reading and simple know-all-about-all skills you think you do, you wouldn't conclude I was a simpleton, and you would not conclude I was a hater. I'm a free thinker, not a kool aide drinker. Sometimes I will read a post from you and think, "Right on, bro." Other times I will think "What a bunch of crap." Type as loooong and as eloquently as you want, but me thinks it was a juvenile hit piece. Big words and condescending prose wont change my mind.

Comment #116 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 2:00 PM

Pleepleeus,

Your claim that I think I'm a mind reader is one of the funniest bits of stupidity/irony ever posted here.

Do you understand that I don't think your mind is worth changing? Do you understand that the video was not posted for your benefit, edification, or entertainment? You are neither the intended audience nor have you been able to address any of the, what I think are, well articulated issues presented. You're the slow kid making farting noises under the adults' table.

For you the video will forever be a "juvenile hit piece" and nothing more. On that we can agree. Your understanding is clear to everyone.

Comment #123 - Posted by: couch at April 25, 2009 2:24 PM

Wow, good one coach. Just re-read my post #117 I guess. Your post, #123, pretty much confirms what I already typed.

1) There clearly is an intended audience. How do you do not know I am not part of that audience?

2) If the video was not posted for anyone's benefit, entertainment, or edification, what, pray tell, was it posted at all?

I'll be farting and giggling in childish anticipation of what possible entertaining insult could be in store for the lesser-ones, the dissenters.

Comment #124 - Posted by: pleepleeus at April 25, 2009 2:45 PM

T200 wrote:Thread detailing concerns: http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=45630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Bastard Son of the Shafman wrote:That's a cluster fuck of a thread.

Sofa King wrote:Hey Quackers,
Aren't you tight with Lisa Ray? Get us the scoop man.

Gary John wrote:For about the 10th time in this thread:

Shut the fuck up about what happens in combat and what you will or will not do. Shut the fuck up about if this happens, then this happens.......

Just shut the fuck up. All the movies and video games are bullshit. The weekends spent playing paintball don't mean shit.
The war stories your cousin told you leaves out the fact he heard them from someone else.

That x-fit raps itself around the military, but surrounds itself with smurfs sucks. Wannabe motherfuckers, honor us by leaving us the fuck alone.

Couch wrote:When we were learning the deadlift with PVC Mr. Caviston's back was as rounded just as it is in the video. He didn't have the neuro-muscular control or flexibility to squat to parallel without raising his heels. He couldn't hold the deadlift set-up posture and maintain a lumbar curve. His erg performance was bested by several students who don't row other than when it is required for WOD's. His best clean, with PVC, was no more than a rounded back stand-up and curl. He could BARELY swim. None of this is a fault or character flaw, but to hold him up as either coach or athlete is silly. It was crushingly apparent that Mr. Calviston does not understand nor has been initiated in the fundamentals of human movement.

Couch wrote:It was crushingly apparent that Mr. Calviston does not understand nor has been initiated in the fundamentals of human movement

I asked Mike to introduce himself, and while he covers most of it, I think he does so modestly. He doesn't mention below his three CRASH-B wins, his 1988 World Record for lightweights or his 2002 6:18.2 World Record for the 40-49 lightweights which still stands. I'm sure I've missed a few things but suffice it to say Mike isn't just reporting scientific theory - he has lived his research and the results speak for themselves!

"My name is Mike Caviston and I have long had an interest in the physiology of training and racing for many sports but especially rowing. I have a master’s degree in Kinesiology from the University of Michigan, where I have been a Lecturer since 1994, primarily teaching courses in Exercise Physiology and Sports Biomechanics. I compete in indoor rowing (40+LW category) and for more than 20 years have been involved off and on as a coach with the U of M’s men’s and/or woman’s rowing programs. My last stint was as conditioning coach for the women’s team from 2000-2004, when I designed a training program called the Wolverine Plan (details at http://www.concept2.com/forums/wolverine_plan.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)."