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The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hokQCG1aHoQ[/youtube]

Hebrew Hammer wrote:The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

In the US?

1. Higher end motion sensor lights for the grounds (both to deter crime and provide better visibility for seniors during the winter).
2. Visible and less visible security cameras-- both for entrances and places of likely vandalism.
3. Don't recycle the security camera footage, ever.
4. Sturdy doors for side entrances.
5. Trim bushes and trees that limit visibility.
6. Encourage the local delis to offer free bagels and coffee to LEOs.
7. Hire a security company to do regular drive-bys of the grounds.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

In the US?

Here's something recent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland_P ... r_shooting

As I said, odds are near-zero of it happening, but not zero. Warnings are issued every now and then, presumably because law enforcement has come across something tangible enough to issue a warning.So goal is to be smart, but not paranoid.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

A large portion of the group should be encouraged to carry concealed weapons. Training at a very reasonable cost should be conducted by police and/or the military.

Bob Wildes wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

A large portion of the group should be encouraged to carry concealed weapons. Training at a very reasonable cost should be conducted by police and/or the military.

can be tough depending on local laws, but I agree. Some places you need permission from your church/synagogue, some places you are are free to carry at will. Some states make it nigh impossible. Check state and local laws carefully, they can change without much public notice sometimes.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:
Here's something recent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland_P ... r_shooting

As I said, odds are near-zero of it happening, but not zero. Warnings are issued every now and then, presumably because law enforcement has come across something tangible enough to issue a warning.So goal is to be smart, but not paranoid.

Something similar occurred in a Jewish Center in Seattle in 2006.
1 - Odds are near-zero of it happening, as you said.
2 - It usually takes an armed response to stop that kind of murderous attack, the sooner the better.

The best defence is a good offence.

Bob Wildes wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

A large portion of the group should be encouraged to carry concealed weapons. Training at a very reasonable cost should be conducted by police and/or the military.

We have probably half a dozen members, mostly ex-military, who conceal carry, but they are there only on occasion.

The rabbis are there are all the time. But I doubt that they would train regularly, and I wonder if conceal carry makes any sense for people who aren't regularly training. With all kind of kids around, could it potentially do more good than harm?

If people don't want to conceal carry, I've thought of having a few guns locked up there in a safe room, but of course that takes time to get to.

something like a kriss vector could likely be concealed under rabbincal robes.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:

Bob Wildes wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

A large portion of the group should be encouraged to carry concealed weapons. Training at a very reasonable cost should be conducted by police and/or the military.

We have probably half a dozen members, mostly ex-military, who conceal carry, but they are there only on occasion.

The rabbis are there are all the time. But I doubt that they would train regularly, and I wonder if conceal carry makes any sense for people who aren't regularly training. With all kind of kids around, could it potentially do more good than harm?

If people don't want to conceal carry, I've thought of having a few guns locked up there in a safe room, but of course that takes time to get to.

I agree with you that training is important. I also admit I assumed that you would have had a fairly large pool of former Marines, soldiers, etc. with a fair amount of weapons training.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

In the US?

Here's something recent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland_P ... r_shooting

I meant, is your hypothetical threat assessment taking place in the US, and it sounds like yes.

As I said, odds are near-zero of it happening, but not zero. Warnings are issued every now and then, presumably because law enforcement has come across something tangible enough to issue a warning.So goal is to be smart, but not paranoid.

Jewish community center attacks in the US average one a decade or so, one nationwide. If you enjoy preparedness, self defense, & firearms, that's great. But don't let the news create an unjustified level of concern where you're doing this from a perception of actual danger. A few extra pounds or using any form of motorized transportation are way deadlier threats.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world. I realize that the odds of it happening in any one location are near zero, but near-zero is not zero. Assuming you wanted to be smart, but not paranoid, what would you do for security in an institution where one or two rabbis are almost always there, kids of all ages are frequently there, and groups of adults are there from time to time, including every Saturday morning.

In the US?

Here's something recent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland_P ... r_shooting

I meant, is your hypothetical threat assessment taking place in the US, and it sounds like yes.

As I said, odds are near-zero of it happening, but not zero. Warnings are issued every now and then, presumably because law enforcement has come across something tangible enough to issue a warning.So goal is to be smart, but not paranoid.

Jewish community center attacks in the US average one a decade or so, one nationwide. If you enjoy preparedness, self defense, & firearms, that's great. But don't let the news create an unjustified level of concern where you're doing this from a perception of actual danger. A few extra pounds or using any form of motorized transportation are way deadlier threats.

That's been my general perspective, but every time something crazy happens I think it's probably worthwhile to engage in some sort of preparation. That's why I'm asking.

I'd kill all the Palestinians HH. Thats step 1.

No beanies + a cross out front and you should be fine.

Or, I'd have a well armed Jew on premises whenever kids are present. Accept that you are the most hated people on the planet and prepare accordingly.

Uh. seriously?

Do you care about anyone other than rabbis?

syaigh wrote:Uh. seriously?

Do you care about anyone other than rabbis?

If you're question is to me, I don't understand what you're getting at.

I do understand what you're getting at.

Rabbis are by far not the only target of the current scourge.

For example:

The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world.

What you failed to recognize is that it should read like this:

The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing EVERYONE around the world.

Uh, its called being arrogant and narcissistic. Its not about you and your gurus. Its about anyone who thinks outside of "God says this" in their particular flavor. If you're part of the "God says this" club, you're part of the problem.

syaigh wrote:For example:

The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing Jews around the world.

What you failed to recognize is that it should read like this:

The recent murders of 4 rabbis at a synagogue in Jerusalem is part of a pattern that's been going on for awhile of attacks by hate-filled fanatics intent on killing EVERYONE around the world.

Uh, its called being arrogant and narcissistic. Its not about you and your gurus. Its about anyone who thinks outside of "God says this" in their particular flavor. If you're part of the "God says this" club, you're part of the problem.

I know that terrorism affects everyone, and I also know that there is a certain terrorism (muslim and stormfront/Nazi types) that zeros in on Jews. I asked for advice because I have some personal responsibility for the children and adults who go to one institution that publicizes its events, has open doors, doesn't require membership, and welcomes everyone. It also happens to be a fairly regular target of butchery around the world. I figured I'd get honest helpful responses here, which I've gotten, along with wild-hair comments like yours, but that's the price of admission here.

As to your concerns about the "God say this" crowd being part of the problem, you've lost your mind. In the United States, there are probably well over 200 million people who believe in God as part of some structured faith. My guess is that, apart from some radical Islamic extremists, there are probably fewer than a handful who plan to commit butchery in God's name.

You're an American, right?

Just seems a little hyper-self-focused. That's all.

I understand wanting to protect your own. But the extremists abroad, ie, outside of Israel, don't really seem to care who they kill.

In other words, in America, you're not special. They hate all of us.

According to my research, there are 18 local civic organizations that can provide security services for a small fee:
http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/ ... g-map.html

syaigh wrote:You're an American, right?

Just seems a little hyper-self-focused. That's all.

I understand wanting to protect your own. But the extremists abroad, ie, outside of Israel, don't really seem to care who they kill.

In other words, in America, you're not special. They hate all of us.

I think it's safe to say that extremists of this nature hold a special place in their dark hearts for Jews. I don't see the original question as being selfish for asking how he can directly help those around him instead of having a theoretical debate on how to end all violence and terrorism everywhere in the world.

Every morning on the news I hear about people being slaughtered by the hundreds. For no reason other than there are evil men and women who relish in justifying blood baths. And its not Israel im talking about.

I realize Jews can be a target as well, but outside of Israel, they are a very small minority of people being targeted. Very small. In fact, you are more likely to get killed if you area Sikh, Muslim, or school age child here in America.