No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

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Ronald RayGun
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Ronald RayGun »

Yeah, sounds precisely like none of our damn biz.
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nafod
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by nafod »

There are 450 of these spread across the center of the USA, to deter the Russians. Meanwhile, Russian gomers are using their satellite feed to watch them, fingers hovering over a button to launch on us.

Anything that degrades Russia is our business.

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Ronald RayGun
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Ronald RayGun »

I might agree with you if, in all of my 42 years, we got ONE right. Just one. Not asking a lot here.
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motherjuggs&speed
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by motherjuggs&speed »

Eight trillion dollars have been spent on the GWOT. Two trillion on Afghanistan and for what? My view is that the purpose of America's wars is to make money for the insiders and consolidate their power. I don't think Biden & Co. actually care about Ukraine. We've been doling out just enough aid, just fast enough to keep them in the fight. In other words, to keep the war running so more money can be spent and the world more destabilized by the missing weapons. What missing weapons? A billion dollars worth, according to the Pentagon --

"Among the items that are designated for enhanced end-use monitoring (EEUM) are weapons like Javelin and Stinger missiles, night-vision devices, AIM-9X missiles, and Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles. According to the IG report, roughly $1.005 billion of the total $1.699 billion of equipment subject to end-use monitoring was not inventoried as of June 2023. "

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/11/politics ... index.html

Now maybe the Ukrainians are too busy to do the paperwork, considering they're fighting a war and all. That's probably part of it, maybe most of it. But how corrupt is Ukraine? With a Corruption Perception Index of 36, pretty darn corrupt.

https://images.transparencycdn.org/imag ... Report.pdf

Nafod, you believe in the narrative. I was once a believer too. But I don't think the people pulling the strings care about containing Russia. I think their true interest lies elsewhere. When it comes to the government and their crusades, I'm with Groucho Marx --



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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

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nafod
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by nafod »

Ukraine is absolutely fighting for its life, you think they are just selling weapons on the side?

Are you arguing that they aren’t degrading Russia?

Saying the GWOT and Afghanistan were stupid…I agree.

Our job is to make Russia’s invasion of Ukraine stupid.
Don’t believe everything you think.


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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by motherjuggs&speed »

They are fighting for their lives but they didn't all become Audie Murphy on Feb 24. A lot of them are still as corrupt as ever and I do think that some of them (not the front line guys) might be selling weapons on the side.

They are doing a lot of damage to Russia so good on them.

If I believed that the war was as advertised then I would see it largely the way you do. But there have been so many rackets in the war business that I'm inclined to doubt anything we're told, especially if a lot of money is being spent.


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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

nafod wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:19 am There are 450 of these spread across the center of the USA, to deter the Russians.
.... or China... or North Korea.... or anyone else who wants to raise a hand against the US.

What makes you think that they're all earmarked for Russia? I was always told that their targets were classified.
nafod wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:19 amAnything that degrades Russia is our business.
Agreed - anything that causes instability in Russia makes it more likely that their missiles will be launched on us. We have an interest in stability in Russia.

One of the reasons for buying nukes from Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan was to increase stability.


All that needs saying about Ukraina.... Zelenski asked for F16s in March of 2022. So far nothing but training and promises. I work with ethnic and native born Ukrainians. They don't strike me as being so stupid as to require many years to train how to use something.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

nafod wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:41 am Republicans must be thrilled that we are letting our ally down.
Be an even bigger shame if the US had a formal alliance with Ukraine. Here's the official scope of US obligations to Ukraine. Note no treaty of alliance.

https://ua.usembassy.gov/our-relationsh ... 20products.

Blinken could negotiate something, submit it to Chuck Schumer for a vote in the Senate.

Schumer can probably get some GOPer Neo-Cons to sign on to it. He's worried about US soldiers fighting Russians, it's the least that he can do.

The Budapest Accords could be submitted to the Senate by Biden. Joe just has to set down his pudding cup and go to it.


In 1975 the US Congress cut off funding to Southeast Asia Collective Defense treaty ally South Vietnam so maybe that's not a guaranteed thing either?


I can't answer for Speaker Johnson or why the Senate Democrats refuse to close the border. Maybe both sides are working for Goldman Sachs?

https://www.goldmansachs.com/intelligen ... rtage.html
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

motherjuggs&speed wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:41 am Eight trillion dollars have been spent on the GWOT. Two trillion on Afghanistan and for what? My view is that the purpose of America's wars is to make money for the insiders and consolidate their power
Smedley Butler said "War is a racket".
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by motherjuggs&speed »

Gene wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 5:03 am
All that needs saying about Ukraina.... Zelenski asked for F16s in March of 2022. So far nothing but training and promises. I work with ethnic and native born Ukrainians. They don't strike me as being so stupid as to require many years to train how to use something.
It doesn't take that long to get a competent pilot trained on F-16. What takes time is building up the maintenance infrastructure; Crews, crew chiefs, a parts pipeline, etc.. Justin Bronk explains a lot of this on Ward Carroll's show.


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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

motherjuggs&speed wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 6:28 pm
It doesn't take that long to get a competent pilot trained on F-16. What takes time is building up the maintenance infrastructure; Crews, crew chiefs, a parts pipeline, etc.. Justin Bronk explains a lot of this on Ward Carroll's show.
Constellis, the company that bought out Academi, is seeking Logistical support staff.

https://www.constellis.com/services/technical-services/

Here is a firm which is supporting F16s to act as adversary forces for the US Navy. We know that there are specialists for this kind of work.

https://www.amentum.com/amentum-awarded ... ary-fleet/

Lockheed offers services to customers around the world. While Lockheed may not send people into harm's way, they can support in NATO countries near Ukraine.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/wh ... tions.html

Romania's F16s are being supported by Kongsberg Aviation Services.

https://www.kongsberg.com/kda/news/news ... o-romania/


The US has had two years since Russia crossed the border. Volodya Zelenski asked for F16s in March of 2022. Can we credit Zelenski with knowing what the UAF needs to win?

The US had Halliburton supporting them in Iraq within how many months? How about Academi, which hired US, Chilean and others to serve roles in Iraq and Afghanistan?


The US and EU have beshat tens of billions of dollars and euros onto Ukraine.

If we wanted F16s for Ukraine they would have them. If we wanted hundreds of NATO tanks for Ukraine, they would have them.


Ukrainians are not stupid. We are using them to bleed Russia. The proof is the lack of support to help Ukraine win with modern weapons.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by motherjuggs&speed »

Gene wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 8:18 pm Can we credit Zelenski with knowing what the UAF needs to win?
I credit him with knowing how to get buy-in from the U.S., partly due to the supply/maintenance infrastructure you cite.


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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by motherjuggs&speed »

Justin Bronk just did another interview where he talks about the difficulties of incorporating F-16s into Ukraine's AF.

TL,dw; It will be a longish, hard process but they're needed in order for Ukraine to continue to have air power at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R31hMWs25UI


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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

motherjuggs&speed wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 10:28 pm Justin Bronk just did another interview where he talks about the difficulties of incorporating F-16s into Ukraine's AF.

TL,dw; It will be a longish, hard process but they're needed in order for Ukraine to continue to have air power at all.
Thank you.

Justin Bronk, PhD, works for RUSI.org He's a pilot and holds a PhD from King's College London.

Here's his page at RUSI.ORG

https://www.rusi.org/people/bronk

RUSI.ORG is the internet presence for the Royal United Services Institute. They've been around a long time.

https://www.rusi.org/about/our-purpose/our-history

Been a lot of good things in the last few years from the UK. ARM, MISRA, Z language and formal methods.

The British have had issues with Russia for centuries. I think that it was called the "great game". They clashed all over the world.

I've read rumors that MI-6 was involved in Chechnya. Rumors of Boris Johnson halting peace talks with Russia in March of 2022.

The British were called "Perfidious Albion" for generations. The British influenced the US to join on their side in World War One. Wilson's advisor, Col House was a British agent. Some think that Churchill sped up US entry into World War 2 by hiding intelligence on Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor.

No permanent friends, just permanent interests. Dr. Bronk might be on point.... or biased. I don't trust his employers.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by motherjuggs&speed »

He does have a certain take on things. I don't know to what extent that colors his analysis of the details. I haven't read enough on this or listened to enough different voices to be able to assess people's credibility that well, or to filter analysis from bias or personal agendas. My take on Dr. Bronk so far is that he knows the details but he either misses or omits the bigger picture.


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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Luke »

Gene wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:50 am I've read rumors that MI-6 was involved in Chechnya.
Would love to know more about this. Any sources?


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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

Luke wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:54 am
Gene wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:50 am I've read rumors that MI-6 was involved in Chechnya.
Would love to know more about this. Any sources?

"Former rebel-turned-Moscow-ally Ramzan Kadyrov said in comments to Zavtra newspaper reprinted on his official website that he had seen the U.S. driving license of a CIA operative who was killed in a security operation he led."

"We're fighting in the mountains with the American and English intelligence agencies. They are fighting not against Kadyrov, not against traditional Islam, they are fighting against the sovereign Russian state," he said."

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58N5S1/



"The FSB named three British citizens working behind Chechen lines in the war zone and said the leader of a team of around 15 Halo Trust employees working in Chechnya last November was a career British military intelligence officer. He was named as Matthew Middlemis."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/aug/11/russia.world
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Luke »

Thanks!

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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Ronald RayGun »

I love that you gents are WAY in the weeds with this. I honesty do. But speaking as a guy who loves my country/countrymen, in a nation where several cities have tap-water that is completely flammable, I can't help but to think that most of, if not all of these foreign war dollars couldn't be better spent here. Get all literary about shit if you want. Fine. I want clean dinking water for the citizens of an allegedly First-World Nation. Not a lot to ask when we seem to have trillions on reserve for global fuckery.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Gene »

Biden's best buddy, Vicki Nuland, is retiring. Her send off by the political hack Tony Blinken is rich with irony.

"But it’s Toria’s leadership on Ukraine that diplomats and students of foreign policy will study for years to come. Her efforts have been indispensable to confronting Putin’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, marshaling a global coalition to ensure his strategic failure, and helping Ukraine work toward the day when it will be able to stand strongly on its own feet – democratically, economically, and militarily."

https://www.state.gov/on-the-retirement ... ia-nuland/

The US has sent Ukraina 31 M1 tanks and no F16s. This is not the action of someone who wants Ukraina to win. This is the act of a gang of criminals who wanted to dump "old NATO stock" onto Ukraine.

Replace F16s with F35s, then dump the F16s onto Ukraine. Replace M1 tanks with M1A2 tanks. Get rid of old artillery rounds. More money for the US and EU military industrial complex.

Here is Marco Rubio asking Nuland about Ukrainian biological labs. Note that she calls the Ukrainian people "Ukranions". We should be worried about the Russians taking labs developing biological weapons but not asking what the hell Ukraine is doing with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydSf57SRtcQ

Yes, this is the same lady who said "Fuck the EU". Fun to watch the Obamaites rally around their pet neo-con.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoyxNJNi7dU

She wanted Yatsenyuk. The EU wanted Klitschko. She got her way.

Good riddance to her.
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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Shafpocalypse Now »

Ronald RayGun wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:08 am I love that you gents are WAY in the weeds with this. I honesty do. But speaking as a guy who loves my country/countrymen, in a nation where several cities have tap-water that is completely flammable, I can't help but to think that most of, if not all of these foreign war dollars couldn't be better spent here. Get all literary about shit if you want. Fine. I want clean dinking water for the citizens of an allegedly First-World Nation. Not a lot to ask when we seem to have trillions on reserve for global fuckery.
I agree RRG. Our infrastructure, our industry, our steel, our shipbuilding...everything has been sacrificed so elites and corporations can continue to transfer wealth from the poorest to the richest.

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No fuckin' thank you to sending US troops to Ukraine

Post by Ronald RayGun »

Right. I seriously don't think my expectations are unreasonable. Plenty of buck-ass-wild shit needs to be addressed here. I'm not an isolationist nor a jingoist. I know what shitty connotation comes with any "America First"-esq rhetoric but I honestly don't care. Left/Right. D/R. America SHOULD be first. But we simply aren't. To put it lightly, I'm not a fan of that.
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