Russia and Ukraine

[Wild Bill]

"Stay at home and earn dollars browsing the internet"

it would be job of dream :) give me link to such job, please :)

[seeahill]

Vice news journalist now, uh, working for Russian separatists and not kidnapped or anything like that....

Separatists in Ukraine said they are holding an American-Israeli journalist.
Simon Ostrovsky, a reporter for Vice News, is now working for pro-Russian, secessionist militia in the town of Sloviansk, the local separatist leader Vyacheslav Ponomarev told reporters on Tuesday, the Russian news site gazeta.ru reported.
“Nobody abducted [him], nobody holds [him] hostage, he is now with us,” Ponomarev was quoted as saying at a news conference that was held amid reports that Ostrovsky had been kidnapped. Ponomarev added that Ostrovsky was now “working, preparing materials.”


Read more: http://www.jta.org/2014/04/22/news-opin ... z2zf9eJ7BV

[Wild Bill]

... now “working, preparing materials.”...

He will be free after those materials are ready, i think. They are in shortage of their own journalists :)

[seeahill]

... now “working, preparing materials.”...

He will be free after those materials are ready, i think. They are in shortage of their own journalists :)

Yes. There's a reason they're short on journalists.

[Wild Bill]

Yet more evidence of what you claimed there was no evidence of.

Watch from 1:40 :)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRTE0aE9tJ4[/youtube]

[Wild Bill]

BTW, funny show

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvH73m_XGn0[/youtube]

[seeahill]

VICE News is delighted to confirm that our colleague and friend Simon Ostrovsky has been safely released and is in good health. We would like to thank everyone for their support during this difficult time. Out of respect for Simon and his family's privacy, we have no further statement at this time.

[Wild Bill]

Glad for him.

[Wild Bill]

[Sangoma]

http://rt.com/shows/sophieco/154364-lav ... -sophieco/

[Sangoma]

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2014/04/13/uk ... perialism/

We live in the times that George Orwell predicted in his groundbreaking novel 1984. A time of deception, where nothing is what it seems to be. Lost in a deep fog of propaganda that passes for information, we have to decipher through conflicting narratives, where stories are planted to hide other ones. In this fictional conundrum, reality has become surreal, and words have lost their meaning. In our Orwellian lexicon, a pro-capitalist and neo-colonialist such as French President Francois Hollande is called a socialist; violent imperialist interventions conducted by the United States and its allies, or even the United Nations, worldwide are called humanitarian missions or peacekeeping missions; policies of regime change, already conducted in Iraq and Libya, and underway in Ukraine, Syria, Venezuela, and even Cuba, are called promoting democracy or strengthening civil society. In Orwellian times, a phony revolution in Kiev is concocted by neocons in Washington DC with help from so-called humanitarian non-g0vernmental organizations (NGO), and USAID takes on the CIA’s role to promote supposedly spontaneous protests in Cuba. In Orwellian times, a big lie often repeated becomes the truth. When policymakers are spin masters, truth is the first casualty.

While tensions rise in Europe over Ukraine, the top five arms manufacturing and exporting countries, which are the US, Russia, Germany, France and China, will benefit most as their merchants of death justify a boost of military budgets by the new arms race, especially between the US, Russia and China.

[Fat Cat]

[Fat Cat]

Poor little Russia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27159423

[Fat Cat]

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2014/04/13/uk ... perialism/

We live in the times that George Orwell predicted in his groundbreaking novel 1984. A time of deception, where nothing is what it seems to be. Lost in a deep fog of propaganda that passes for information, we have to decipher through conflicting narratives, where stories are planted to hide other ones. In this fictional conundrum, reality has become surreal, and words have lost their meaning. In our Orwellian lexicon, a pro-capitalist and neo-colonialist such as French President Francois Hollande is called a socialist; violent imperialist interventions conducted by the United States and its allies, or even the United Nations, worldwide are called humanitarian missions or peacekeeping missions; policies of regime change, already conducted in Iraq and Libya, and underway in Ukraine, Syria, Venezuela, and even Cuba, are called promoting democracy or strengthening civil society. In Orwellian times, a phony revolution in Kiev is concocted by neocons in Washington DC with help from so-called humanitarian non-g0vernmental organizations (NGO), and USAID takes on the CIA’s role to promote supposedly spontaneous protests in Cuba. In Orwellian times, a big lie often repeated becomes the truth. When policymakers are spin masters, truth is the first casualty.

You are a wheezing parody of a conspiracy enthusiast, so utterly ensconced in your anti-American fantasy world that you can't clearly distinguish between novels and reality. Since you don't seem to be clear on it, the system which Orwell was indicting was the totalitarian USSR you adore. The slogans and structure of IngSoc were lifted directly from Stalin-era CPSU speeches and propaganda. By all means, look it up. So pretty please, shut the fuck up about Orwell since your grasp of his intent is non-existent.

Do you notice how all you post and quote are claims with no evidence? Protests in Cuba, spurred on by USAID? LOL. In your world, the people of Ukraine, Syria, Venezuela, or Cuba are just mindless puppets controlled by shadowy American forces. It's all rather nauseating. Apparently you don't know what a real popular movement looks like, but that's not surprising since you come from a system where the people had no voice. There is no way for foreign agencies (i.e., CIA) to create a popular revolt without the support of the people themselves. Shrieking about America just makes you a reactionary dunce.

While tensions rise in Europe over Ukraine, the top five arms manufacturing and exporting countries, which are the US, Russia, Germany, France and China, will benefit most as their merchants of death justify a boost of military budgets by the new arms race, especially between the US, Russia and China. [/b]

I am all for reigning in global arms merchants, and without question, America is the number one proliferator of weapons in the world. But that fact has no material relationship to this discussion, particularly without any evidence that America is stoking tension to promote arms sales. Russian government has absolute nigga logic, they beat up their neighbors and then whine about persecution when the World Police shows up. Learn to behave or...

[Sangoma]

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2014/04/13/uk ... perialism/

We live in the times that George Orwell predicted in his groundbreaking novel 1984. A time of deception, where nothing is what it seems to be. Lost in a deep fog of propaganda that passes for information, we have to decipher through conflicting narratives, where stories are planted to hide other ones. In this fictional conundrum, reality has become surreal, and words have lost their meaning. In our Orwellian lexicon, a pro-capitalist and neo-colonialist such as French President Francois Hollande is called a socialist; violent imperialist interventions conducted by the United States and its allies, or even the United Nations, worldwide are called humanitarian missions or peacekeeping missions; policies of regime change, already conducted in Iraq and Libya, and underway in Ukraine, Syria, Venezuela, and even Cuba, are called promoting democracy or strengthening civil society. In Orwellian times, a phony revolution in Kiev is concocted by neocons in Washington DC with help from so-called humanitarian non-g0vernmental organizations (NGO), and USAID takes on the CIA’s role to promote supposedly spontaneous protests in Cuba. In Orwellian times, a big lie often repeated becomes the truth. When policymakers are spin masters, truth is the first casualty.

You are a wheezing parody of a conspiracy enthusiast, so utterly ensconced in your anti-American fantasy world that you can't clearly distinguish between novels and reality. Since you don't seem to be clear on it, the system which Orwell was indicting was the totalitarian USSR you adore. The slogans and structure of IngSoc were lifted directly from Stalin-era CPSU speeches and propaganda. By all means, look it up. So pretty please, shut the fuck up about Orwell since your grasp of his intent is non-existent.

Do you notice how all you post and quote are claims with no evidence? Protests in Cuba, spurred on by USAID? LOL. In your world, the people of Ukraine, Syria, Venezuela, or Cuba are just mindless puppets controlled by shadowy American forces. It's all rather nauseating. Apparently you don't know what a real popular movement looks like, but that's not surprising since you come from a system where the people had no voice. There is no way for foreign agencies (i.e., CIA) to create a popular revolt without the support of the people themselves. Shrieking about America just makes you a reactionary dunce.

While tensions rise in Europe over Ukraine, the top five arms manufacturing and exporting countries, which are the US, Russia, Germany, France and China, will benefit most as their merchants of death justify a boost of military budgets by the new arms race, especially between the US, Russia and China. [/b]

I am all for reigning in global arms merchants, and without question, America is the number one proliferator of weapons in the world. But that fact has no material relationship to this discussion, particularly without any evidence that America is stoking tension to promote arms sales. Russian government has absolute nigga logic, they beat up their neighbors and then whine about persecution when the World Police shows up. Learn to behave or...

Unsurprisingly, you're missing my point completely. And I couldn't be bothered explaining. I feel bad for the Ukrainians, Russians and others caught in the middle this shit. The situation is getting really bad, and the civil war now seems very probable.

[Fat Cat]

I'm not missing your point, I'm telling you it's full of shit. To snivel about literary comparisons and the manufacture of conflict to promote arms sales is to ignore the fact that Russia has invaded another country and annexed its territory. Until you can draw a clear distinction between fiction and reality, you have nothing to offer. #realtalk

[Sangoma]

You are hypocritical, my angry friend, in your insistence that current events can be viewed in isolation from the past several decades. Wy don't you compare the Crimea affair with the separation of Kosovo, for example? Instead you trudge along the typical politically correct drivel of "bad Russia" took "poor Ukraine". The issue of Ukraine and Russia relationships has been around for longer than the TV cares to show, because for most of the time it didn't involve green people in ski masks.

Is this unrelated?: http://news.yahoo.com/clinton-fears-eff ... gALU_QtDMD

As I said, it is the matter of belief, you want it or not. Facts in these matters are scarce, indirect, difficult to get and easy to twist around. Who ordered snipers shoot at Maidan protesters? Yanukovich? Could he be more stupid than a low level yellow press journalist and not see the consequences? Was it a provocation? Err... do you have any documents?

As far as Orwell is concerned, it is time for you to calm down. I am not sure what slogans in 1984 were Stalinist. The point is, when I read the book in the late 1980s I thought it is about Old Soviet Union. Now, after living in the Free World for more than two decades I can tell you it is about the West as much as about North Korea or other bogeyman newspapers have created. I refer to Orwell not to impress you with my literary erudition. I mention him for the simple reason of simplicity: the name of Orwell implies political and military struggle between big powers. Just like the mention of Machiavelli relates to certain personality traits.

[Fat Cat]

You are hypocritical, my angry friend, in your insistence that current events can be viewed in isolation from the past several decades. Wy don't you compare the Crimea affair with the separation of Kosovo, for example? Instead you trudge along the typical politically correct drivel of "bad Russia" took "poor Ukraine". The issue of Ukraine and Russia relationships has been around for longer than the TV cares to show, because for most of the time it didn't involve green people in ski masks.

Is this unrelated?: http://news.yahoo.com/clinton-fears-eff ... gALU_QtDMD

How can I be any more clear? History can be used to provide context, it cannot be used as a justification for present evils. As for the relationship between Crimea and Kosovo, be explicit if you think they are related and/or similar. The painful reality is that Yugoslavia-cum-Serbia lost Kosovo long, long (i.e., decades) before it was officially amputated due to Serbian incompetence and malfeasance in both the domestic and international spheres.

You are right about one thing, though. Russia has been interfering in Ukraine's sovereign affairs for a very long time, using military power and assassinations to destabilize it and bend it to Moscow's will, rather than serving the interests of the Ukrainian people. But we aren't worried about the USSR-turned-Russia past misdeeds so much as we are concerned with Russia's present misdeeds.

As I said, it is the matter of belief, you want it or not. Facts in these matters are scarce, indirect, difficult to get and easy to twist around. Who ordered snipers shoot at Maidan protesters? Yanukovich? Could he be more stupid than a low level yellow press journalist and not see the consequences? Was it a provocation? Err... do you have any documents?

Yes, many things are unclear. Neither of us has special knowledge. We must go by what we see, and what we can see is that Russia has invaded and annexed huge portion of another country. All your words don't amount to much more than an attempt to rationalize and justify that, but ultimately you can't. Because it is wrong.

As far as Orwell is concerned, it is time for you to calm down. I am not sure what slogans in 1984 were Stalinist. The point is, when I read the book in the late 1980s I thought it is about Old Soviet Union. Now, after living in the Free World for more than two decades I can tell you it is about the West as much as about North Korea or other bogeyman newspapers have created. I refer to Orwell not to impress you with my literary erudition. I mention him for the simple reason of simplicity: the name of Orwell implies political and military struggle between big powers. Just like the mention of Machiavelli relates to certain personality traits.

Just stop.

[Wild Bill]

Shit, i should read that Orwell... To say something clever about him... :)

[Wild Bill]

Lugansk. pro-russians against pro-newgovernment.
Urrraaaa! :)))
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u5ovRsiu3A[/youtube]

[Wild Bill]

separatists

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj-FSYBe-vo[/youtube]

[Wild Bill]

He said his beard better :) and he was in jail during 2008. There wrong translation, "not far from here" it is idiom wich means jail.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QP6sM5VnUQ[/youtube]

[Sangoma]

This is how international politics works; can you figure out which guy is evil?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mvHtVr2OVA[/youtube]

The main disagreement in this argument is temporal. In short, history unfolds in much slower time frame. This way events in Ukraine are directly related to events in Kosovo more ten years earlier. You disagree and think we should only focus on what's happening right now. A matter of perspective.

I am not trying to rationalize or justify anything. True meaning of events would be comical, if not for huge number of real live people caught in the mess.

[Wild Bill]

N.S.Khruschev declare about giftin Crimea to Ukraine.

[Wild Bill]