Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Herv100 wrote:Spells, don't mind that 50/60 eyewitness testimonies(most if not all are black) supported Wilson's story, and that the autopsies supported it as well.
No they don't. The part that keeps Wilson out of jail is, "Brown attacked me." Nothing corroborated that except for a welt that looks like it came from a 10 year old orange belt. I didn't read 50 testimonies, but if they all said "I saw Brown attack Wilson," share a link. If the autopsy showed Brown had just been punching something before he died (Trayvon Martin's did), provide that as well.

If there was anything remotely convincing that showed Wilson had been in a brawl with Brown, this wouldn't be an issue.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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spells--

gunshot inside the cop car--slug found in the car. gunshot residue on brown's hand. brown's blood inside cop car and on wilson's uniform.

how did brown get a portion of his body in the car? are you suggesting brown walked up to the car and the cop pulled him in?

if not, brown went after the cop in his car.

do you have a different view?
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Herv100 wrote:Spells, don't mind that 50/60 eyewitness testimonies(most if not all are black) supported Wilson's story, and that the autopsies supported it as well.
No they don't. The part that keeps Wilson out of jail is, "Brown attacked me." Nothing corroborated that except for a welt that looks like it came from a 10 year old orange belt. I didn't read 50 testimonies, but if they all said "I saw Brown attack Wilson," share a link. If the autopsy showed Brown had just been punching something before he died (Trayvon Martin's did), provide that as well.

If there was anything remotely convincing that showed Wilson had been in a brawl with Brown, this wouldn't be an issue.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... a-decision

Ferguson Documents: How The Grand Jury Reached A Decision
November 25, 2014 6:41 AM ET
Eyder Peralta
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Krishnadev Calamur
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Police guard the Ferguson police department as rioting erupts following the grand jury announcement in the Michael Brown case on Monday in Ferguson, Mo.

Police guard the Ferguson police department as rioting erupts following the grand jury announcement in the Michael Brown case on Monday in Ferguson, Mo.
Scott Olson/Getty Images

After sitting through hours of testimony and reading through thousands of pages of documents, a grand jury decided that there was not enough probable cause to indict police officer Darren Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old.

Their decision, like the shooting that led up to all this, sparked violent protests overnight in Ferguson, Mo.

"The duty of the grand jury is to separate fact and fiction," the prosecuting attorney, Robert McCulloch, said in a televised address Monday night. After weighing the evidence, at least nine of the 12 members of the grand jury decided that Wilson acted within the limits of the lethal-force law.

In a rare move and in an attempt to allay concerns about bias, McCulloch made public the mountain of evidence presented to the grand jury. We're combing through the thousands of pages — including testimony from Wilson and many witnesses — and throughout the day, we'll update this post with the pieces that help explain how the jury reached its decision.

Last Updated at 11:14 a.m. ET. Witness Testimony:

Leading up to this decision, witness testimony has been hotly debated — so much so that the symbol of this story has become protesters raising their hands, symbolically telling police, "Hands up, don't shoot."

We have documents of dozens of witness interviews. If you listened to McCulloch last night, much of this jury's decision came down to whether Brown was charging Wilson or surrendering or running away.

As we've detailed in another post, it's really complicated. Some witnesses say Wilson started shooting after he got out of the car; some say he started shooting inside the car. Some say Brown was very clearly surrendering, others say it didn't look like he had been hit at all.

Perhaps the simplest way to explain all of this is to take a close look at Witness 14.

Without a doubt, Witness 14 is sympathetic to Brown and, in fact, had run into him at least once in the past.

"[Brown] was to me, and I'm going to say it, he was executed," the witness said. "[Wilson] had made up his mind he was going to kill him."

That was the witness' conclusion — that as Brown was shot, he was surrendering, he had his hands up.

That's what the witness told local authorities. But when the feds interviewed Witness 14 and drilled down on the details, the witness' assumptions became less clear.

Were Brown's hands a sign of surrender? Or was he checking his injuries? Were his palms facing the officer or facing Brown?

The witness eventually says: "He was defenseless, hands up, he was trying to stay on his feet and you could see that his knees was beginning to buckle and he was going down."

But the investigator eventually gets to a very important point. He leads the witness to say that Brown was moving toward Officer Wilson, who was screaming, "Stop," as he fired his weapon:
Witness 14: Moving Toward Officer Wilson (pg 15)

Last Updated at 12:30 p.m. ET. Wilson Testimony:

Wilson's testimony to the grand jury presents the image of an officer who was scared for his life during the confrontation with the larger man who he says was physically assaulting him. One excerpt:
Wilson on punch (pg 216)

Wilson is 6 feet, 4 inches tall and weighs about 210 pounds. Brown was an inch taller and weighed about 290 pounds.

The officer said Brown and his associate, Dorian Johnson, were walking in the middle of the street, preventing normal traffic from passing. He said he told them to move to the sidewalk, and after a brief exchange Brown used a vulgarity at him. Wilson said he called for backup and tried open the door of his police car. Brown, he said, slammed the door shut. They struggled and Brown hit him in the face twice, Wilson said.

He said he thought, "What do I do to not get beaten inside my car?"

Wilson said he had considered using Mace, his baton and his flashlight before drawing his gun and telling Brown, "Get back or I'm going to shoot you." Brown then grabbed his gun, Wilson said, and twisted it and dug it down into the officer's hip. The officer said he feared he would die if Brown got hold of the gun. He said he managed to raise the gun and fired twice. It just clicked. But the third time, the gun went off, startling both men.

That's when, Wilson said, Brown looked up at him "and had the most intense aggressive face. The only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked. He comes back towards me again with his hands up."

Wilson said he tried firing again but nothing happened. When he tried once more, it went off. Brown then hit him again, he said.

The officer said that when he looked up, Brown was running away. Wilson said he got out of the car, called for backup and began chasing Brown. He said Brown then stopped and he did, too. He said he ordered Brown to get on the ground, but the 18-year-old did not. He said Brown made an "aggravated sound" and ran back toward him. He said he warned Brown repeatedly to get on the ground, but when he did not comply the officer fired "a series of shots."

"I don't know how many I shot, I just know I shot it," he said.

Wilson then proceeded to explain his rationale for why he chased Brown. He said he wanted to keep Brown "contained" until support arrived. He said he thought that if he could buy 30 seconds of time, until other officers arrived, they could "make the arrest, nothing happens, we are all good."

"And it didn't happen that way," Wilson said.

Last Updated at 3:47 p.m. ET. The Physical Evidence:

One really important part of this case is of course the physical evidence. We've gone into more details in a separate post.

There are two findings of major importance: First, the autopsy found that Michael Brown was never shot in the back, as some early witnesses claimed.

Second, they found Brown's blood inside the police car and on Wilson's gun. This implies that there was close-range contact as Wilson alleges.

We've also posted the photographs taken of Wilson on the day of the confrontation. Doctors diagnosed him with a bruise. That seems to cast some doubt on Wilson's testimony about the intensity of the confrontation.

Last Updated at 6:41 a.m. ET. The Documents:

We've uploaded most of the documents we received from prosecutors. We invite you to look through them and tip us off to anything you find interesting in the comments.

Here are the documents:

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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Grandpa's Spells wrote: Nothing corroborated that... I didn't read 50 testimonies
Nothing corroborated that in the testimonies you didn't read?
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Like I said, Kannel
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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The officer doesn't have to have a single fucking mark on him. You reach for their gun they are trained to fucking kill you.

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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Turdacious wrote:
Grandpa's Spells wrote: Nothing corroborated that... I didn't read 50 testimonies
Nothing corroborated that in the testimonies you didn't read?
"Witnesses saw Brown attack Wilson" would hit the top of most news feeds.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Herv100 wrote:Spells, don't mind that 50/60 eyewitness testimonies(most if not all are black) supported Wilson's story, and that the autopsies supported it as well.
No they don't. The part that keeps Wilson out of jail is, "Brown attacked me."
The part that kept him from being indicted is the badge on his chest. You or I would have been indicted because the prosecutor would have asked for an indictment.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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That or the evidence is so in Wolson's favour. it's about 50/50% that you might get indicted as a civilian in this state if you kill an Orc going for your firearm, but it's 95-100 you will win in court.

Ever since Treyvon idiots think you have to have visable damage to claim you were in fear of your life and justified. It's the concussion (you know? the shit that's making Football start to suck) that's the issue if some Trogg is banging your head on the ground or hitting you with his Ape knuckles.




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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Phaedrus wrote:
Gene wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:More victim blaming from you, Gene.
She fucked up. She died. No victims here.
Now, progressing to misogyny. Predictable.
Now progressing to the soft sexism of low expectations for a woman's judgment. Predictable.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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DARTH wrote:That or the evidence is so in Wolson's favour. it's about 50/50% that you might get indicted as a civilian in this state if you kill an Orc going for your firearm, but it's 95-100 you will win in court.

Ever since Treyvon idiots think you have to have visable damage to claim you were in fear of your life and justified. It's the concussion (you know? the shit that's making Football start to suck) that's the issue if some Trogg is banging your head on the ground or hitting you with his Ape knuckles.
Zimmerman's indictment was a sham, but it happened because the case had such a high profile that the prosecutor asked for it. Grand juries do whatever the hell prosecutors ask because they only see what the prosecution wants to show them. For anyone who's not a cop, they are a rubber stamp. They do not weigh both sides of the evidence and look for the truth.

The only reason this grand jury existed is that the prosecution wanted other people to take the blame for a decision that was made months ago.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Gene wrote:You can't un-fuck a goat.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Pinky wrote:
DARTH wrote:That or the evidence is so in Wolson's favour. it's about 50/50% that you might get indicted as a civilian in this state if you kill an Orc going for your firearm, but it's 95-100 you will win in court.

Ever since Treyvon idiots think you have to have visable damage to claim you were in fear of your life and justified. It's the concussion (you know? the shit that's making Football start to suck) that's the issue if some Trogg is banging your head on the ground or hitting you with his Ape knuckles.
Zimmerman's indictment was a sham, but it happened because the case had such a high profile that the prosecutor asked for it. Grand juries do whatever the hell prosecutors ask because they only see what the prosecution wants to show them. For anyone who's not a cop, they are a rubber stamp. They do not weigh both sides of the evidence and look for the truth.

The only reason this grand jury existed is that the prosecution wanted other people to take the blame for a decision that was made months ago.
Prosecutors don't like to bring cases to court that they don't think they can win. And the prosecutor was effectively chosen by Gov. Jay Nixon.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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nafod wrote:
Gene wrote:You can't un-fuck a goat.
Thanks for going the Second Mile, Nafod.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Gene wrote:
Thanks for going the Second Mile, Nafod.
Hey now!!!!

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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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As a brash young generation has emerged to play a critical role in the dramatically expanded protests in support of slain black teenager Michael Brown Jr. — at times denouncing traditional black community leaders — the NAACP played a quiet role as go-between for witnesses, elected officials and the police.

The St. Louis chapter of the group says it has relocated some fearful witnesses, helped others make ends meet in the wake of losing jobs during the fallout from the teen’s death, and is raising funds to further shield witnesses whose full identities and testimony could be released if a grand jury decides not to indict the police officer who shot and killed Brown.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-naa ... h-movement
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Why shouldn't the Brown family make money off of their sons death? The Demcratic machine and the press are making tons off the incident.

Since the left is engaged in conspiracy theories, how about this one. A democrat procecutor is pressured by the democrat Governor via the democrat President of the USA to tank the indictment. Why? What better way to rile up one of their key bases. The dems are going to lose their magic negro in 2016 and the black base has been less than enthused lately. What better way to remind them they need their democrat slave masters and the liberal plantation?

As for me, I guessing the procecutor has no national political aspirations and believed Brown to be guilty as hell. Why push for an indictment, then lose a high profile case and damage his state political aspirations? Particularly a case he believes to be wrong. IMO- The democrat procecutor chose his state political career over the interests of his Party.
Last edited by Batboy2/75 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Turdacious wrote:
As a brash young generation has emerged to play a critical role in the dramatically expanded protests in support of slain black teenager Michael Brown Jr. — at times denouncing traditional black community leaders — the NAACP played a quiet role as go-between for witnesses, elected officials and the police.

The St. Louis chapter of the group says it has relocated some fearful witnesses, helped others make ends meet in the wake of losing jobs during the fallout from the teen’s death, and is raising funds to further shield witnesses whose full identities and testimony could be released if a grand jury decides not to indict the police officer who shot and killed Brown.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-naa ... h-movement
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Liar! Spells has assured us there are no witnesses that prove Brown attacked Wilson.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Batboy2/75 wrote:
Turdacious wrote:
As a brash young generation has emerged to play a critical role in the dramatically expanded protests in support of slain black teenager Michael Brown Jr. — at times denouncing traditional black community leaders — the NAACP played a quiet role as go-between for witnesses, elected officials and the police.

The St. Louis chapter of the group says it has relocated some fearful witnesses, helped others make ends meet in the wake of losing jobs during the fallout from the teen’s death, and is raising funds to further shield witnesses whose full identities and testimony could be released if a grand jury decides not to indict the police officer who shot and killed Brown.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-naa ... h-movement
Image

Liar! Spells has assured us there are no witnesses that prove Brown attacked Wilson.
And that kind of intimidation from the 'community' is nothing new and utterly real. Flat out silly to think witnesses in any ghetto shooting come forward readily and publicly (cop involved or not). And it's not the cops or the 'system' they're afraid of.

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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Had an interesting talk with a St. Louis U. law professor who had former students involved in the case on the prosecution side, and as is so often the case, the media doesn't really point out some things that are obvious to people on the inside.

The reason they say any prosecutor worth a damn can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich is because the threshold for success is incredibly low. All you you have to so is show the possibility of, "Could a crime have been committed?" and "Did this guy do it?" And you have great discretion in how to proceed. To that end, you don't cross-examine your own witnesses or put up those who contradict each other (this prosecutor did both), you don't throw all the evidence up so that the defendant can craft a story that won't be contradicted, only exceedingly rare circumstances would you let a defendant testify (white collar crime involving a govt. employee or maybe a he-said/she-said sexual assault case, never a murder), particularly at length and never with no cross-examination.

This guy said, given the facts of the matter, a conviction would not have been likely at trial, but the prosecutor took a deliberate dive on a case that absolutely would have went to trial under any normal circumstance, and had Wilson been guilty, he handed him all the information to craft a narrative that wouldn't be contradicted by the evidence. Zero to do with political pressure, everything to do with protecting the cop, and furthering a strong sense in the community that due process is for white people.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Grandpa's Spells wrote:Had an interesting talk with a St. Louis U. law professor who had former students involved in the case on the prosecution side, and as is so often the case, the media doesn't really point out some things that are obvious to people on the inside.

The reason they say any prosecutor worth a damn can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich is because the threshold for success is incredibly low. All you you have to so is show the possibility of, "Could a crime have been committed?" and "Did this guy do it?" And you have great discretion in how to proceed. To that end, you don't cross-examine your own witnesses or put up those who contradict each other (this prosecutor did both), you don't throw all the evidence up so that the defendant can craft a story that won't be contradicted, only exceedingly rare circumstances would you let a defendant testify (white collar crime involving a govt. employee or maybe a he-said/she-said sexual assault case, never a murder), particularly at length and never with no cross-examination.

This guy said, given the facts of the matter, a conviction would not have been likely at trial, but the prosecutor took a deliberate dive on a case that absolutely would have went to trial under any normal circumstance, and had Wilson been guilty, he handed him all the information to craft a narrative that wouldn't be contradicted by the evidence. Zero to do with political pressure, everything to do with protecting the cop, and furthering a strong sense in the community that due process is for white people.
So the prosecutor saved Missouri taxpayers the expense of a trial that likely wouldn't have resulted in a conviction? Isn't that what prosecutors should do all the time, both for the benefit of the taxpayer and the accused?
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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The life long democrat prosecutor protected the cop because he wants to fortify in the community's mind that due process is for white people? You really believe this?

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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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Ingredients

2 3/4 cups all-purpose flour
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon baking soda
2 1/2 sticks unsalted butter, softened
1 1/4 cups packed dark-brown sugar
3/4 cup granulated sugar
2 large eggs
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
1 1/2 cups semisweet chocolate chips
Directions

1. Sift together flour, salt, baking powder, and baking soda.

2. Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Beat butter and sugars with a mixer on medium-high speed until pale and fluffy, about 4 minutes. Beat in eggs 1 at a time. Add vanilla. Reduce speed to low. Add flour mixture; beat until combined. Mix in chocolate chips.

3. Using a 2 1/4-inch ice cream scoop (about 3 tablespoons), drop dough onto parchment-lined baking sheets, spacing about 2 inches apart. Bake until golden around edges but soft in the middle, about 15 minutes. Let cool for 5 minutes. Transfer cookies to a wire rack, and let cool completely.

4. After cookies have cooled, serve with milk.
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Re: Michael Brown, Ferguson Missouri

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The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:The life long democrat prosecutor protected the cop because he wants to fortify in the community's mind that due process is for white people? You really believe this?
Come on, in fairness, that's just one of the reasons.

Let's see, so far, I've read that he wasn't indicted because one of the guy's who performed one of the autopsies wasn't a doctor. It appears that all 50 witnesses who testified were lying. I've also read that the (D) governor told the (D) prosecutor not to push because they want blacks to vote in the next election.

People believe what they want to believe.
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